The Naughty Chair skips by the Scott house
Monday, May 2, 2005
It happened again. I’m sitting around, chatting it up with the girls, and one of them queries, “Did you see Supernanny last night?”
Now, I’m expecting an ensuing satire– like the one my children performed when I taped the show to see what all the hoopla was about. But instead, I hear, “Did you see how Supernanny used The Naughty Chair? What a wonderful idea…”
Amy gags in response, but nobody notices her choking because they’re all too engrossed with the finer details of the latest episode. Amy hits herself on the back in a feeble attempt to keep living, and all the gals praise her for illustrating the importance of back-patting.
It’s all very good for the self-esteem.
Now, I don’t want to be the cause of anyone’s sense of worth spiraling out-of-control. But the question begs to be asked: Why are Christian mothers going to secular humanists for parenting advice?
Answer: As a symptom of a greater problem (in a nutshell, worldliness), the Christian community as a whole has failed to follow a Titus 2 model of discipleship.
For the sake of pragmatic efficiency, we’ve replaced front porch bean snapping with Christian Women’s workshops. All one needs to know can be learned in a 12-week Bible study, “how-to” bestseller, or Saturday workshop.
I’m not against efficiency. I’m not against workshops either, and you know how I love (non-self-help) books. Being a mother of several small children, cutting corners and studying efficiency models is time well-spent. However, I just had a conversation with an older mother who knows that a few things would have turned out differently if she’d put down her books and had a cup of tea with a grandmother in the church. I took her words to heart.
There are nuances that can’t be conveyed in a mass-media format (such as this). When you’re at the kitchen table instead of a workshop, you see Mama smile at her little boy every time he enters the room. You witness her firm, gentle voice in response to Baby’s fit. You observe her bending down when she talks to grandchildren. You see her adding a dash of garlic to every dish and setting out the best piece of pie for her husband instead of herself. And it’s also a lot easier to cut to the chase.
A few years ago, I was the only whipper-snapper in a Monday morning quilting circle. I remember watching the older women hand-stitch their pieces, and thinking, “I’ll never have the patience to make more than a twin-size quilt.” I was right. I marveled at how they just took their time, and it was clear why my work didn’t look like their work. (It still doesn’t.) You can’t learn to “pop the knot” by watching HGTV; you have to feeeeeel the knot pop. Likewise, patience– for sewing and living– is gleaned from observing aged wisdom in action.
It bears repeating that Jesus passed on the Kingdom work to twelve men on a fishing boat. No mention of a 40-day program with matching bread and fish journals.
As for SuperNanny, I guess it’s good in some sick way that the media are finally giving us permission to discipline our own children. I mean, it’s pleasurable to know that I can bite, kick, and cuss one of my authorities, and I’ll only get 29 minutes (one minute for each year I’ve been on earth) in The Naughty Chair. That’s actually worth it.
As for me, I’ve found that Biblical wisdom is getting easier to come by now. Just observe the latest trend, and go do the opposite.
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Preach it sister
You definitely hit the proverbial nail on the head with this one. I’m trying to get my wife to read this blog, I think it would offer her much ecouragement. Young women don’t get much now from the elder woman, unless you go to workshops.
(O’ the dreaded workshops)
By the way, yes I am a man, a father of 1, a husband of 1, and I enjoy this blog. I also enjoy your husbands blog, his insight into those oblivious to the good works they done was wonderful. God’s grace be to you Amy, and your family. May the Lord use you to inspire all women to aspire to Pr. 31.
Comment by Rick Creech (May 2, 2005 @ 10:40 pm )
Once I took my 4 little boys into a used clothing store run by a neighbor who my dh discovered was also a local social worker. While we browsed she kept watching the children in awe…I guess.
Finally, she turned to me and said, “That Time-Out really works, doesn’t it?”
Knowing she was a single, feminist, social worker and it was NJ, I refrained from telling her my opinion of time-out. Does anyone really think time-works?
Comment by Cindy (May 2, 2005 @ 10:54 pm )
Amen Girl!
Comment by Jami (May 2, 2005 @ 10:56 pm )
We have become a society where families keep to themselves.
“It’s nobody’s business how I raise my kids. I’m sure Grandma was a very good parent in her day, but times have changed.”
Some simply refuse to believe that they are doing anything wrong or that anyone else who isn’t being paid an arm and a leg for a 3 hour workshop can actually have useful advice.
Good post, sad to say.
Comment by rev-ed (May 2, 2005 @ 11:07 pm )
Amy - My mil is in love with Supernanny. I get to hear (every week!) just what Supernanny would do with my kids if she had them. No more spankings, no siree, the naughty chair would work for her grandson. About half the time the solutions are for problems we don’t even have or don’t consider problems. Some of her advice does sound good, but nothing is going to work in the long run unless you are raising your children according to The Book (not the books).
Comment by Shannon Miller (May 2, 2005 @ 11:52 pm )
That was the best sermon I’ve heard in a while. I hope you’re printing some of this out to compile into a book.
You are wise beyond your years. But then, your kids aren’t teenagers yet! Just kidding…
Comment by Tim (May 2, 2005 @ 11:53 pm )
Good piece, Amy.
Anyone have any ideas about changing things? What suggestions can you give to moms who want things to be different?
We don’t need each other for physical things like we used to, we like being independent, and the tasks of daily living lend themselves to isolation instead of community. (You don’t have to sit on a front porch for hours to get beans anymore.) How can we promote interdependence?
Then we make choices that keep us away from home, like being involved in several activities at church or with the kids. (Not to mention if mom works outside the home.) That sounds like it would build community, but not neccesarily. Throw in computers and “virtual communities” and you have a lifestyle that requires people to be deliberate in the development of relationships.
I think part of it is to pray for people to come into your lives, to be your “Paulette” as well as your “Timothea”. Look for opportunities to build relationships.
I’d like to hear of ways other women have been successful at doing this.
Thanks for the inspiration.
Thanks for the reminder to work on that.
Comment by Lexie (May 2, 2005 @ 11:57 pm )
Amen, Sister!
Comment by Rick Beckman (May 3, 2005 @ 12:32 am )
We do need more ways to find “titus 2 women” - they aren’t as easy to come by as they use to be. i attend a really small church of about 40 people (although we are growing already) and it’s made up mostly of families with kids our kid’s ages or a little older. Those moms just a step ahead of me have been a Godsend. But even within the church, I don’t have someone that is quite as…”conservative” as I am.
Comment by Shannon Miller (May 3, 2005 @ 8:14 am )
I’ll admit to having watched “Super Nanny” more than once, with my husband even, and I think the show is popular because:
1. It’s entertaining. It’s worth watching it just to see Super Nanny’s priceless facial expressions over the children’s horrid behavior.
2. It makes you feel that, even on your family’s WORST day, at least your own bunch is far, far more civilized than the children of the desperate family who called in Super Nanny. (Where do they find these families?)
3. It always has a happy ending. Super Nanny saves the day. The children turn from horrid monsters to much more pleasant children. Everyone is happy. Everyone, especially the now kinder and gentler children, hugs Super Nanny and thanks her. Joyous tears all around. Super Nanny rides off into the sunset, ready to help the next desperate family.
Someone asked if time-outs work. I say it depends on the parent and the child. A vague, “Go to your room until you can be nice to your brother!” doesn’t seem, IMO, terribly effective, especially if all it means is that Buford gets to sit and play computer games instead of having to deal with the pesky brother who deserved the thrashing he got—at least in Buford’s mind.
But I’ve also observed enough families over the years to echo a friend’s question: “Does spanking really work?” she asked increduously after watching a father remove the same son for spanking after spanking during the course of one church service. My answer was the same: it depends on the parent and the child.
In more than one online discussion, I’ve heard mothers bemoan the fact that they don’t dare spank in public and their children, knowing this, run amok in the grocery store, running, screaming, throwing things, etc. I actually ran this by the stair step brigade some years back and they were simply kerflummoxed. “Well,” I urged, “so why did you guys usually behave in the grocery store?”
“Because you told us to.”
“Because I told the younger kids about that time that we didn’t and you left the grocery cart in the store and apologized to the manager on the way out as you took us all home. We were so ashamed.”
Ah, yes. I remember the threats of, “Do we have to leave the store?” worked quite well, even with no spanking awaiting anyone once we left.
But then these are the same kids who never got the fuss over their good behavior when out and about. “How else WOULD we behave?” they would ask me later. “Why did they go on about how good we were? We were just acting normal!”
We have an old family expression for that you know, I would tell them. “Street angel and house tyrant.” They would rise up in arms. Maybe #1 (nicknamed by his sibs “third parent”) was a house tyrant, but not The Near-Perfect Child! (BTW, he seems to have outgrown that nickname…)
Comment by Rebecca (May 3, 2005 @ 10:40 am )
Amy,
I love your writing. It’s so true. Why do Chrisitian mother’s turn to the mass media for parenting tips. My parenting manual is the bible and there is more information that works in there than any parenting class.
P.S. Can you look at my blog, I think you’ll enjoy it.
http://www.rightway.blog.com
I also loved feminism, scheminism
Comment by Doreen Linder (May 3, 2005 @ 11:17 am )
Amy,
I love your writing. It’s so true. Why do Chrisitian mother’s turn to the mass media for parenting tips. My parenting manual is the bible and there is more information that works in there than any parenting class.
P.S. Can you look at my blog, I think you’ll enjoy it.
I also loved feminism, scheminism
Comment by Doreen Linder (May 3, 2005 @ 11:18 am )
Amen, Amy!
I am amazed at the number of Christians women that quote Oprah and Dr. Phil as if it were the gospel while seemingly having no idea what the Bible has to say about the same issues.
So sad.
Comment by laura (May 3, 2005 @ 11:35 am )
“you have a lifestyle that requires people to be deliberate in the development of relationships. ”
Lexie, there you have it! Developing meaningful relationships is deliberate! As a homeschool mom of 10 I can (and do) make many excuses keeping me from imparting and recieving wisdom! I mean, really, who has the time?
But God’s Word is clear…it’s not about me, it’s about serving God and through His strength, others.
Thanks Amy!
Comment by Diane (May 3, 2005 @ 11:36 am )
On Reading Rainbow today they showed a Hopi Indian making bread. She spoke of the tradition of making the bread, how it was a time to be alone but also a time of being together with others.
What traditions do we have like that? My family doesn’t have any. I’d like to hear from others about this.
Dianne, how do you make time for relationships?
One thing I’ve tried is a workday with another famliy that is dear to us but doesn’t live real close and now goes to another church. The idea was that we would alternate one Saturday a month to help each other with home maintenance stuff. That was about 8 months ago and we’ve done it 2 times. It’s crazy how hard it is just to schedule one
Saturday between only 2 families.
Shannon, thanks for your input. I see that it’s a frustration, even in small churches. I go to a big church, so sometimes it’s hard just to see the same people.
Once again, we have to purpose to have relationships of quality. They don’t happen by default like they used to.
Now, I’m inspired to try again. (That’s bloggin’ doing some good..inspiring me to make changes in my real world.)
Thanks, “Diane for the reminder that it’s not about me, but about serving God and through his strength, others.”
Sorry to take up so much space, Amy!
Comment by Lexie` (May 3, 2005 @ 12:48 pm )
I too find it amazing that people about fall over themselves for SuperNanny, Oprah, Dr. Phil, and the rest.
A kernal of truth surrounded by chaff.
Why do Christians go to the world for answers? That baffles me!
I think people like to see that other’s have it worse than they do. Now, Supernanny, do you think that is real or are they acting and setting it all up? And who would humiliate themselves and their family like that on national television? That’s quite strange in itself. It’s one of those things that “I just don’t understand.?”
An easy way to Titus 2 is simply to have another family over and be real. Invite a friend and her children for lunch. If you’re the younger family, invite the older over.
I remember years ago, when we only had 2 or 3, we invited the largest family we knew over for Sunday dinner, not because they were a large family, just because they had such a nice family. We admired them. There were 5-6 children in the other family. I learned so much from that one Sunday dinner.
That’s mentoring.
That said, we have to be careful who we mentor with. There is a generation or 2 of Christians that bought the world’s ideas for being a woman, wife, and mother hook, line, and sinker. We do have to hunt around a bit for those women who are finding their wisdom in the scriptures.
Amy, did you speak up to these women or let it go?
Comment by Kim Brenneman (May 3, 2005 @ 4:33 pm )
Amy-Thank you for saying what so many of us were thinking.
Last night was the first time I have seen SuperNanny…it will probably be my last…The naughty chair was not what got to me…it was the insistence that the offender “apologize” to the offended…All that was needed was the word “sorry” and then everything was o.k. Hah! It won’t take those boys long to learn to simply say “sorry” with a nice voice and then they are free from “The Chair”. There was absolutley nothing in the way of sincerity encouraged. But, what does one expect from a “reality” show. I won’t even get started on what I thought of SupperNanny’s advice to how the mom “should take more control and dad should stay out of it”. Arrgg!!!
Comment by Mother Hen (May 3, 2005 @ 5:58 pm )
Just to play devil’s advocate. . . (After a quick disclaimer I’ve heard of but not seen the Nanny shows.)
You asked, “Why are Christian mothers going to secular humanists for parenting advice?”
I ask in reply–is everything taught by non-Christians “secular humanism?” Is everything taught by Christians “Biblical?”
The obvious answer to both is no.
And yet. . . I have seen parents (and other Christians) fall prey to the opposite of what you are warning about. I’ve known wonderful, Bible-believing “Berean”-types to fall prey to false teaching (in parenting and other areas.) Why? Because the teacher warned against “secular humanism” and presented his own ideas as “Biblical”–even if they were not Biblical.
So while, yes, may many more women seek to find their Titus 2 mentors and be those mentors to others, we still need to use caution. Take what we see and what we learn and compare it to the Bible and sound theology. Take those things and compare them to what we know through studying the world God has created. Don’t dismiss something (or conversely, accept it) simply because we at first label it “humanistic” or “Biblical.”
Comment by TulipGirl (May 3, 2005 @ 6:32 pm )
“That said, we have to be careful who we mentor with. There is a generation or 2 of Christians that bought the world’s ideas for being a woman, wife, and mother hook, line, and sinker.”
I totally agree. I think women now are going to have to be especially vigilant about going back to the Word ourselves because there is a shortage of true Titus 2 ladies. We’re just going to have to learn as we go much more than generations past had to. And we need to be sure to pass what wisdom we find on to the young women coming up right behind us. Lots of us are far enough from our teens that we have some perspective and have gained some wisdom, but still close enough to remember what it was like. I think young women especially need to an example of Godly womanhood being lived out by women they can view as friends - a mentor if you will:) So even as we’re looking around to build a relationship with an older Christian mom, let’s not forget to look around and see if there’s someone we can be that “older woman” for.
Comment by Shannon Miller (May 3, 2005 @ 8:20 pm )
Great post! I agree. When my children were 4 and 6 months I stood over my kitchen sink and cried out to God “Lord, please put it on someone’s heart to invite me over.” I was social enough mind you, I was just desperately craving a Titus2 relationship. No less than a week later a woman walked up to me at church and said “My girls and I would like to practice hospitality, would you like to come over for lunch.” I was amazed. God heard and answered the very prayer He out on my heart. It was the beginning of a very precious friendship.
Roberta
Comment by Roberta (May 3, 2005 @ 11:00 pm )
The Supernanny intrigues me. Honestly, I wonder how my kids would act if you put cameras around the house and followed them wherever they went. The most disruptive my children ever are is when things around them are changed. Let’s be real for a moment, the nanny hasn’t instantly “SOLVED” all the families problems, the kids have gotten used to the cameras.
Concerning the “naughty” chair. For many of us, “time-out” has existed well before supernanny and will continue after. But I am concerned that the absolute dread with which they treat spanking. I am not talking about beating or abuse in any way, shape or form. Just a simple swat on the hiney to startle a child and stop the negative or even dangerous activity. I saw the nanny come down very hard on a father who DARED to swat his son two time on the rear while he was throwing a fit before bed. My husband loudly shouted at the nanny (as though she could hear him)stating, “His son listened, he did what he was told.”
There exists this dramatic fear that if hand hits tush a grievous sin has been committed. But in some situations, a little (and I do mean little) healthy fear is important for the safety of the child.
Never should a parent raise a hand in anger or malice toward their child, but not all things can be cured by sitting down. If my daughter reaches to touch fire, I will swat that hand away and tell her “NO”. The small pain of the swat will be enough to remind her in the future.
Comment by Paula (May 4, 2005 @ 1:06 am )
I am going to be a dissenting voice on this one. I have watched SuperNanny on a number of occasions and I can tell you that God rains not only on the righteous, but the unrighteous as well. Jo Frost has a great deal of commonsense and she applies it in families that have been chaotic and now are more functional and caring towards one another. Why do we Christians think we can’t learn from someone who doesn’t wear WWJD wristbands?
Because of the politically correct climate in which we live, it isn’t possible to publicly advocate parenting that incorporates the use of the switch/rod/wooden spoon. Using other means of discipline that incorporates CONSISTENCY and firm guidelines is something that works for all families — Christian or not and I believe it is common grace that makes it work. Given the restraints she and the families she is working with are under, I think she does a marvelous job in helping these families get things under control and not a few of us could learn from her if we weren’t so proud.
I have known Christian families who were believers in the use of corporal punishment. (I believe there is a place for it and that it is mandated by Scripture, btw, so no need to paint me as a flaming liberal.) For them it was the only tool in the toolbox. You know the old adage? When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. These kids were spanked for everything, and I mean everything when other methods might have been more productive and effective. God doesn’t just chastise us with the heavy artillery. Sometimes he lets us feel the natural consequences of our own foolishness. Sometimes he uses a rebuke from a brother or sister, or even a time-out in the metaphorical naughty chair. Sometimes we get whomped hard in the butt. For families who have used nothing but the rod for everything, the methods Jo Frost models are a good example of correcting a child without resorting to the last resort of the rod. The child is given clear guidelines to follow, a warning is issued when the child starts to disobey, the child is then disciplined consistently through use of the naughty chair, removal of privileges, etc., the offense is clearly spelled out, and restitution is demanded in the form of apology before the child is allowed to continue on with the rest of the family. It isn’t too hard to find the Christian principles being employed here even if they are not spelled out for those in TV land.
Let’s remember that it isn’t only Christians who watch these shows. I would far rather have non-Christians watching something like this and incorporating these methods with a fair amount of success than in having them struggle along with children who are completely out of control, disrespectful, and destructive towards themselves and others.
Lastly, it is easy to say that worldliness and a lack of Titus 2 mentoring has afflicted the church and for young mothers and fathers to bemoan the lack of leadership in this area as though it was all the fault of the older generation. What I have observed in myself as a young parent and now as an older one, is that young parents are extremely proud know-it-alls who don’t WANT to listen to those who have gone before. Before you go blaming it all on the older generation perhaps you ought to ask yourself just how teachable you are willing to be in hearing what they have to say, both by way of admonition of how not to do it, and positive example.
Before I had teens I used to look with disdain on parents of teens who were doing wonky things and think, “My kids will NEVER do that.” Well guess what? I am now raising my sixth teen and God has taught me a lot of humility through the process and the things that I never wanted to hear from older experienced Christians are the things I am having to learn now.
It is easy to think when your children are little and you homeschool and catechize them and can force them to do things your way that you have everything under control. You can follow “Growing Kids God’s Way” or follow the Pearl’s or some other firm disciplinarian Christian teachings and think you are successful only to find when your kids start to individuate in the teen years that things weren’t quite as under your control as you thought them.
So what did I wish I had learned from those older parents? That godly discipline, catechizing, baptism, preaching, family worship, etc., are MEANS of grace, not the grace itself. God may or may not use these means in any child given His sovereign and electing grace, or He may not use them on *our* timetable. IOW, we may plant and water, but it is GOD who gives the increase. Easy to say and profess, but much harder to live out when things don’t look like they are going right. It is too easy to put faith in your methods rather than in Christ working in our children’s hearts when and where He wills.
Ok, I’ll climb off my soapbox. :o)
Comment by Cheryl (May 4, 2005 @ 2:33 am )
Once again I am happy I don’t have TV and have no idea what you’re talking about with this Supernanny. However, I do agree that we have a lack of discipline in our society and I can’t stand time outs. I was in the store the other day and a couple of young children were running out of control. The mother told the children to slow down and then started that counting. However, she only got to one and kept repeating “one.” She never went farther and never disciplined. Granted it is hard to discipline in a Walmart. I actually found myself saying outloud, “You already said “one!” Luckily, she didn’t hear me.
Comment by Katherine Alba (May 4, 2005 @ 6:58 am )
Good post Amy, I certainly have nothing to add…though I agree with Cheryl that young people are know-it-alls (I was one of them). Do you think it is because of the Darwinian thinking behind the age segregated school system? Do you remember telling your parents when they helped with homework that “That is NOT how the teacher told me to do it!” There is this sense that the younger generations are more enlightened and the older generations are ignorant. And the God given authorities (our parents)…aren’t.
Then, there is the problem that so many of the generation before us (in the Church) has bought into humanistic thinking. Or is that my Know-it-allness talking again?
Didn’t I say I had nothing to add? Sheesh!
Comment by Margaret in VA (May 4, 2005 @ 8:53 am )
Lexie, I meet once a week with a group of women for Bible study. (We are doing Beth Moore’s Believing God) Our group ranges in age from mid twenties to eighty-something. We have met for over 2 years and I have been so blessed by the give and take of Godly wisdom and love.
This group meets on Thursday mornings so I had to make a choice which was more important…schooling my 6 school-aged children during the “normal hours” or using the time to become involved in other believers’ lives.
Last week I was given 4 tickets to a Cleveland Indians baseball game so I invited 3 girlfriends to attend with me! We really didn’t care that the Tribe lost
we just loved the more than an hour drive there and back…time to share in each others lives.
Comment by Diane (May 4, 2005 @ 9:43 am )
Just another dissenting voice,
While I do not watch the show it is perfectly ok for Christians to watch it so that they can use it as a tool to engage the culture. Not that they need to waste all of there time watching it, but just enough time to know what it is really about.
I know, I know I am just a guy, but this is what blogging is all about, having good discussions.
Comment by Wayne M (May 4, 2005 @ 11:25 am )
Thanks for the input, Diane.
Wayne, though you are “just a guy”, you got it right w/the “this is what bloggings all about” line. (Insert Hoky Poky music here.) Hooray for everybody’s input.
For me, bottom line, as God to teach me through other people & help me to loves others as myself. I have to make sure I’m abiding so I won’t be tossed by the waves.
Comment by Lexie` (May 4, 2005 @ 12:31 pm )
Amen, Cheryl! You wrote, “What I have observed in myself as a young parent and now as an older one, is that young parents are extremely proud know-it-alls who don’t WANT to listen to those who have gone before. Before you go blaming it all on the older generation perhaps you ought to ask yourself just how teachable you are willing to be in hearing what they have to say, both by way of admonition of how not to do it, and positive example.”
Been there, done that—on both sides of the fence.
I’ve also got to agree with what Tulip Girl wrote. So many young Christian parents today will look askance at anyone who doesn’t parrot their particular parenting guru and they will dismiss whatever comes out of the more experienced parent’s mouth as being “secular humanism”. After all, their parenting guru said that anyone who doesn’t do xyz is obviously being influenced by secular humanism!
It seems that for many parents, the younger the oldest child is, the more the parents think that they know. I remember being so full of ideas and parenting philosophies and taking everything so SERIOUSLY back then. Now that my oldest is “a dolt” (friend and family joking title for siblings who are between the ages of 18 and 21) and I’ve realized that he was not destroyed by his grandmother giving him candy before noon, I’m much more relaxed—and that really raises the dander of some of the young parents I know. Saying “just wait”, I’ve learned, is the wrong approach. Haha.
Comment by Rebecca (May 4, 2005 @ 12:57 pm )
Diane - awesome example!
The point that Amy made in the original post was, “Why are Christian mothers going to secular humanists for parenting advice?”
The point was not that secular humanists do not have truth. God, in His common grace, even allows secular humanists to stumble upon truth every now and then. All truth is God’s truth - no matter the source.
Also, she didn’t say that it is just the older women who are dropping the ball. What she said was “the Christian community as a whole has failed to follow a Titus 2 model of discipleship.” Are you “younger ones” seeking those relationships? Are you “older ones” seeking those relationships?
Seems like everyone is making this way too complicated.
What is the primary source of your parenting wisdom? God’s Word. And according to the Word, what is the primary vehicle for applying what we learn? According to the Bible it is to be relationships. We work out our theological model of parenting in the context of our relationships with other like-minded lovers of God.
Supernanny can’t help me with that.
Now turn off that TV Amy!
Comment by Greg (May 4, 2005 @ 1:03 pm )
I’m not a secular humanist, but I used to scoff at “Time Outs” until I met my fourth daughter. Time Outs work wonders with her temperament.
Comment by Hindsfeet (May 4, 2005 @ 2:50 pm )
Thanks, Cheryl, I really appreciated your comment.
We haven’t had a TV between us in many years until this years college basketball season was midway through and we grew weary of bringing our infant to sports bars. So now we have one. And I started watching Supernanny because it was something talked about among the young moms I am acquainted with, Christians and non-Christians alike. I think part of engaging the culture is knowing the culture and watching what others watch or listening to what they listen to (as long as it doesn’t cause you to stumble in any way) is a great way to connect with people. Though it’s not my motivation for watching, I do get ideas for more creative ways to redirect and set boundaries, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that.
All this to say, I don’t watch Supernanny to teach me how to parent. I wish more like-minded moms of older children made themselves available to me, I would really enjoy watching and learning in person. But, I have experienced a lot of busyness among mothers of older children, and not a great deal of warm welcome, at least where we live now.
Comment by kristen (May 4, 2005 @ 3:42 pm )
While I agree that it is silly (IMHO) to waste time watching shows such as Supernanny and to drink in the wisdom of the world (as a Christian) as though it were gospel, I have to give a HEARTY “amen” to Cheryl and also to Rebecca’s comments agreeing with Cheryl! I guess I fall into the older mom category now since I have 4 teens and 4 littles. When all my kiddos were little, I would say that I was very idealistic. Now that they are older, I’ve become a bit more realistic. No, my children haven’t gone off the deep end or anything ~ they are good kids! But when I was a “young” mom, I thought I had all the answers. If I just did it “this way” or “that way” things would turn out perfectly. (Perfectly = what “I” think perfect should look like) And, boy, did I scoff if I saw someone else raising the children the WRONG way!! However, when you’re children become young adults, they don’t always have the same idea of “perfect” that you do, and unless sin is involved, I don’t believe I should try to shove each and every one of them into MY mold of the perfect Christian young person as described by … (you fill in the blank with any Christian “guru” you wish).
I guess I’ll get off my soapbox now, as well. Just keep in mind that God is good and merciful and He will bless our efforts as we train our children according to His word as best we can and pray, pray, pray for them!
Comment by Linda (May 5, 2005 @ 11:10 am )
A good discussion. I’m speaking for Amy sort of (a dangerous business), but I don’t think her original post was so much about time out or no time out, but rather about where we get our parenting advice and models. Reading books or watching TV is not the best way to learn how to be a parent. I really liked what Amy said about watching other moms do the work of parenting. The nuances and the small consistent habits of love and grace and discipline get lost in a book or in an episode of SuperNanny. No book, not even the Bible, can tell me exactly when a spanking is appropriate or not appropriate or how and when to give grace and a second chance to a child who’s messed up.
The thing about parenting is that you learn by practice and experience (and from Biblical models),and it’s very good to have the Godly example of those who gone farther along the road to follow and learn from. I’ve avoided a few mistakes that way–although I’ve made plenty of mistakes, too. This learning from others doesn’t mean I have to do it just like someone else does or live up (or down) to someone else’s expectations, but I can learn a lot by observation. Of course, much prayer is always good.
Comment by Sherry (May 5, 2005 @ 11:52 am )
I think the thing about something like the Super Nanny that would bother me the most is that parents would seek parenting advice from someone who clearly has no vested interest in the child. Sometimes, I think we are more interested in compliance and convenience with our kids, and we look for ways to achieve that.
Comment by Kim in ON (May 5, 2005 @ 1:35 pm )
We’ve watched Super Nanny several times. The first time my ds, 2, saw the show, he stared wide-eyed at it for a few seconds, then walked toward me saying, “Those are naughty boys. They need a spanking, Mommy.” Smart kid!
I have a Christian friend with 2 girls like this. It’s sad. I don’t even visit her anymore because they won’t let us alone to talk. They are in 1st Grade and K at a local Christian school and she is a special ed school teacher. Her dh works nights.
In a public place and need to spank? I’ve no fear. That’s what public restrooms are for. I just lower my voice and say, very sternly but quietly, “Do I need to take you to the restroom?” and my older 3 know what I mean right away. And because I would and have done it, I cannot remember the last time I’ve had to (w/ them.) My 2 yr old had his first restroom spanking the last time we were at WM. I just realized that he hasn’t acted up in public since. Hummmm…
Comment by Khyraen (May 7, 2005 @ 4:11 am )