Mailbag

Monday, May 29, 2006

38 Comments

1. It is simply intellectually wrong for someone that does not share your views to say you are not intellectual or that you lack backbone. You display both.

   I’ve waded into the Margaret Sanger debate before. And have to admit I appreciate birthcontrol. But the discussion still needs to center around God’s standards and our “living out” of those standards.

   Obviously as Christians we cannot characterize ourselves by a great deal of consensus on various political and theological issues. I’ve grown up Southern Baptist. Baptist are known to disagree on everything. The sad fact that I am a Southern Baptist is due to a split over slavery. My ancestors thought slavery was biblical.

   I do think that we can show the outside world what it means to love one another. And that love (the kind with real teeth in it) is best shown when it does not quit because we disagree. In fact in the midst of conflict it is honest, kind, patient, humble, and perservering.

   Oh, I had good success with ebay and cloth diapers–the thick tri-fold kind. It was the only place I could find them. Unfortunately, I just sold them in a garage sale because I just never used them with my second child.

   Comment by leslie (May 29, 2006 @ 11:14 am )

2. I hereby, declare Amy the Humble, a blog of great reading. That poor person who can’t handle the corny must get a LIFE! PLEASE! I personally keep coming back because of the intellectual substance of your blog. You return greatness to the role of wife and mtoher. And, I come for the humor. If we can’t laugh well, then life would be pretty dismal.

   Oh and the Sanger fan, needs to spend a little time in the bible to get an idea of what the bible really says about children, the womb and more.

   It takes great strength to read these kind of comments and stand strong. You have great substance. Keep on keeping on.

   Comment by KS Milkmaid (May 29, 2006 @ 11:15 am )

3. Hi Amy,
   I’ve been reading your blog for about five months now-
   And I love it!
   I’m a 26 yr old stay at home mom of 2 and I never considered myself corny but now I think I’ll consider it a compliment if someone does refer to me as corny!
   As for the backbone- Everyday I pray I would have a little less, I would stay out of lots of trouble I get myself into.
   Keep up the good blogging.

   Comment by Mrs_H (May 29, 2006 @ 11:43 am )

4. Guess I’m corny and lack back bone too, because I came across your blog last night (through JenIgs) and was blessed by it. Me and my corny self will be visiting often! Nice to meet you! :o)

   Comment by FayW (May 29, 2006 @ 11:49 am )

5. You garden therefore you use cloth diapers!

   See, I’m a really smart SAH/homeschool mom.

   (((Amy)))

   Comment by Janet (May 29, 2006 @ 11:52 am )

6. One of the most enlightening things to learn about God is that He has a sense of humor!!

   Yours is a blessing to me, so please don’t stop!
   R

   Comment by Rhonda (May 29, 2006 @ 11:52 am )

7. On the Sanger Debate…..How about some scripture references? I’ll start:

   Psalm 127
   3. Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
   4. As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.
   5. Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.

   I will make two comments:
   1. Saying that you don’t want or like a reward from God is about the most arrogant thing a person could do. They are saying that they know more than God and that their standards are higher than God’s. I have observed, even in Hollywood, that the ultimate in life is to halt your career and raise children. People sometimes learn this by trial and error–after they first try everything else.
   2. God compares children to arrows. I would not want to head into battle with only two arrows (or 1.5 :-))! It also refers to “children of the youth”. This seems to indicate that we are not to wait (use birth control) until WE are ready. Youth goes by quick…God knows that we need the energy of youth for the task of raising our children as arrows to be shot out for Him.

   Please contribute more verses on the subject (for and against :-))!

   Comment by Jesse (May 29, 2006 @ 1:57 pm )

8. It is good that you can have a sense of humor about it. If everyone agreed on everything or shared what they thought in the same way, it would be very boring. Sad that some people can’t keep those kinds of things to themselves. Didn’t their mother teach them “if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all”?

   Comment by Wendy (May 29, 2006 @ 2:12 pm )

9. What I meant by “you seem to be the kind of person that might or does cloth diaper” IS a compliment, so please take it as one : ) And all I meant by that is you seem like a “strong” woman who would have the patience and desire to do cloth diapering. That may sound WAY too stereotypical, and hope I don’t say anything offensive here! All the women I know who have cloth diapered and stuck with it…..are patient and more on the “natural” side of things…and women with strong convictions (not to say that women who DO NOT cloth aren’t these things!!!!!!!!!!) : ) Just from what I’ve read on your parenting style….you seem to have a more “natural” approach, if you will?! OK, I don’t know if I’m making ANY sense…..so I’ll just stop! : ) But that was where I was coming from when I said that ; ) Maybe I shouldn’t have thought that?! : )

   Comment by shawnda (May 29, 2006 @ 2:35 pm )

10. Oh yes, and the comment about Margaret Sanger. Sensitive subject for me coming from working in a crisis preg center, and therefore knowing some of the ins and outs of Planned Parenthood : ( And being the THANKFUL mother of 2 adopted children that would NOT be here had their birthmother NOT have chosed LIFE for them!!!!!

    I will have to say with great conviction (and in agreement with you Amy), if we don’t hold to an absolute truth, then there is no standard for right and wrong!!!! So, how can we say ANYthing is right or wrong?! BUT…we DO! And EVERY person has SOME conviction of what is right and wrong BECAUSE THERE IS A STANDARD of right and wrong!!! Now, most people don’t base their standards (with acknowledement) on the Bible…..BUT the reality is that there is conviction in our hearts on right and wrong because we were created in the image of God and for His purposes!!! So, holding Margaret Sanger to a standard isn’t holding her to anyBODY’s standards but to an absolute truth - God’s Word. Hmmmm…does that make sense?

    Thanks for being bold and standing up for truth here, Amy…..and doing it in LOVE and with grace!!!!!

    Comment by shawnda (May 29, 2006 @ 2:45 pm )

11. Amy,

    Quite frankly the reason I read your blog almost daily is because you uplift, encourage and demonstrate the true calling that women have as mothers and wives.

    Your blog does anything but sabotage the intelligence of women. In fact, you are an example of a godly stay at home that gives dignity to stay at home moms. In our society today we do not get the respect we deserve.

    I am a Lutheran (Missouri Synod) and although I disagree on some doctrinal differences I wholeheartely appreciate your highly intellectual insight.

    You keep blogging, I will keep reading.

    Your Lutheran Friend,
    Monique

    Comment by Monique (May 29, 2006 @ 3:25 pm )

12. ????? You DON’T grind your own organic wheat ?????

    Now what am I supposed to think….

    Comment by Tim (May 29, 2006 @ 6:24 pm )

13. Corny? Not enough backbone or intellect? And the comment about Margaret Sanger is just ridiculous. I’m glad you can laugh. They’d be quite comical if they weren’t so out-of-touch.

    Comment by Joanne (May 29, 2006 @ 6:26 pm )

14. I don’t know if my husband will let me continue to read if you don’t grind your own wheat. You SURELY spin your own flax, though, right??

    Comment by Dawn C (May 29, 2006 @ 8:05 pm )

15. Corny in a funy way!!I just love your family pictures-the recent one about swinging.Just shows people that as a Christin family you have lots of CLEAN WHOLESOME FUN!!

    Comment by Tammy (May 29, 2006 @ 10:15 pm )

16. Amy, I think as long as you keep writing your blog in order to give glory to God and not for any response of man (empty praises or criticisms, either way), you are contributing a great deal to the world of cyberspace! It’s so easy for us to get wrapped up in what people say and think about us, either good or bad, and that’s because we love to be “made much of!” I pray that your heart and mind as you make it public on your blog would always point others to Christ - whether it’s corny or not!!!

    Galatians 6:14

    Comment by Kristi (May 30, 2006 @ 1:31 am )

17. Amy, Thanks for the big old guffaw this morning. If I didn’t know better, Id think you were making this stuff up:) Let’s just all make up our own standards to be held accountable to - I’ll murder you but don’t be mad cause you don’t want to be holding me to YOUR standards, right? HAHAHAHA!

    Comment by Shannon Miller (May 30, 2006 @ 9:19 am )

18. That’s okay. I was called “homophobic” and “concerned about what other people do in the bedroom” not long ago. At least you’re just corny and not intellectual.

    I guess when you get a little hate mail, you know you’re doing something right!

    Comment by Kristen (May 30, 2006 @ 9:54 am )

19. Ehrg, I meant that THEY SAID you were corny and THEY SAID you aren’t intellectual.

    My brain is on permanent vacation.

    Comment by Kristen (May 30, 2006 @ 9:55 am )

20. My wife reads your blog, at least occassionally? and I have appreciated when she brought my attention to some of your musings on the boys and I even enjoyed the chicken preparation remarks even though I never actually do that myself.
    Anyhow, food for thought…
    I regret having ever used birth control and feel sad whenever I hear of any Christian who uses it in any sense.
    The summary of my thoughts is this. Besides the fact that Scripture tells us that children are a blessing from God, I believe it is a trust issue. We say that we trust God and that He will never give us more than we can handle yet we Assume, in regards to children, if we don’t manage His blessing just right we may be too blessed and then we would have too many blessings, far too “unevenly” spaced apart and we would never have any spending money and we would all live in rags and drive really old 15 passenger vans and what kind of a blessing could that be.
    We pray everyday for more children and can not right now and I can only live in forgiven “regret” wondering how many Blessings we might have had if we didn’t try so hard earlier trying to manage things ourselves.

    Comment by Scott (May 30, 2006 @ 10:31 am )

21. I suspect Amy will not be surprised to see a response from me on this subject since I have recently shared our dilemma with her. We completely agree with Scott, but after our last birth we were told not to attempt another pregnancy due to anticipated “lifethreatening” complications. We have trusted God in our family planning and issues like hand-me-downs and old cars are irrelevant for us. The aspect that we struggle with is that God gave us brains, experts, and the ability to weigh the factors presented to us to make decisions. Our desire is to have more children. We strive to trust the Lord in every area. However, is it God’s plan for us after 5 C-sections and 4 miscarriages to have more children particularly if there is a good chance that both the baby and I may not make it through another pregnancy? If anyone has any Biblical insight for us, please share it.

    Comment by Heather (May 30, 2006 @ 12:00 pm )

22. About the Sanger comment…some people just don’t get it, do they?

    Also, I do not think you’re a corny Christian. You are a brilliant writer who writes from the heart. Your love for Christ and your family is evident. Also, you have a wonderful sense of humor and crack me up on many days. Thanks for the blessing your blog is to me!

    By the way, after 4 boys we’re having a GIRL!!! I also have a 15 year old daughter who is pretty excited about this!

    Comment by Nancy (May 30, 2006 @ 12:15 pm )

23. Heather,

    I do not know this writer, but what he had to say here seemed good and quite applicable to your situation. If nothing else, it could be an encouragement to you:

    My wife and I have 5 children (I delivered them all myself–No, I am not a doctor or a mid-wife)…2 of the births involved life-threatening complications. We have had 1 in a birth center, 1 in a hospital, 3 at home (as of August 14th, 2006). I know from experience that the doctors do not always know what is life threatening and what is not. More knowledge sometimes reveals acceptable alternatives. I will give some examples beginning with my Mom…

    1. She was told by her doctor after having 4 children that she should not have more children for health reasons related to varicose veins. Little did either one of them know that this condition could be managed by herbs and drinking lots of water.

    2. For our first child, my wife had to go to the bathroom very badly all throughout the birth, but could not go. After the baby was born, her uterus would not collapse and she was bleeding profusely (She very easily could have died). They gave her a shot and at the same time realized that her bladder needed to be emptied to allow her uterus to contract down and stop the bleeding. This worked. Had we had this bit of knowledge before, we could have avoided the entire incident.

    3. My wife also tore badly on the first baby because the midwife we had knew nothing about applying pressure and support to avoid this altogether….we learned this on our 3rd.

    4. With our second child, we had to go to the hospital because they thought we were 5 weeks late….the vernix showed that the baby was 1 week early.

    5. Our third baby was born with the cord wrapped around his neck. In a hospital, this would have generated a C-Section (major surgery and recovery). In this case, our experienced mid-wife simply popped the cord over the babies head and the birth continued without incident. The baby was not yet breathing from his mouth and the midwife had dealt with this issue many times in the past.

    6. Our fourth baby was born naturally in the breach position….Once again, in a hospital, they want to do Caesareans for this condition, which, I believe, threatens the life of the Mother and the baby. That procedure is overused in the US (statistically proven) for the Doctor’s convenience.

    Heather, I do not know the situations you are facing, but I do know Doctor’s are sometimes wrong. We are going to our mid-wife tomorrow and I could get a second opinion for you. If you would like that, just e-mail the details to Amy and she can get them to me.

    We will be praying for you…..It is a hard thing you are facing.

    Jesse

    Comment by Jesse (May 30, 2006 @ 1:52 pm )

24. Something went bad with my link. Can you fix that Amy? Below is the web-site I was referencing:

    Here it is.

    Once again, I don’t endorse this guy, I just liked this article.

    Comment by Jesse (May 30, 2006 @ 1:54 pm )

25. My wife reads your blog

    If I had a nickel…WHEN WILL YOU MEN JUST STAND UP AND ADMIT IT?!?!?!?!? You read some lady’s blog. It’s all good.

    Grace and peace, bro,
    Amy

    Comment by Amy Scott (May 30, 2006 @ 2:23 pm )

26. Amy,
    Remember my very first published article I told you about in Alliance Life? It was about Margaret Sanger. I have to say I was totally unprepared, at the time, for the onslaught of support for her among the good folks who read AL. After some prayer I decided not to write in and defend my position and beautifully God raised up several people to defend my position in subsequent letters to the editor. Several years after that I even got to meet one of my defenders.

    Comment by Cindy (May 30, 2006 @ 3:53 pm )

27. Cindy,

    Know what you mean. Sometimes you just have to write and let it stand as it is. For the most part, I try to make that the general road I take, and save my defending for instances where I miscommunicated. Otherwise you end up arguing a fool according to his folly, and we homeschool moms need to be busy grinding wheat instead.

    (please laugh)

    Comment by Amy Scott (May 31, 2006 @ 5:06 pm )

28. Heather, do lots of research! I have learned (like Jesse) not to take doctors at face value anymore. Some of them actually believe that having a 5th or 8th or 10th child is “life threatening” even if both mother and baby are healthy! Others believe that *any* c-section after 1 or 2 is deadly and push sterilization like there’s no tomorrow. Our former pastor was told that his wife would “certainly die” if she didn’t get sterilized because thier first two children were 11 months apart. After 15 years, they had a sterilization reversal, and have two more children, this time 2 years apart. So much for doom and gloom. I also know a lady who is getting ready to (or maybe already has) have her 13th and 14th babies (I think). All her children were born by c-section. This is her 3rd set of twins in under 5 years, and there’s a singleton in there too. She used to have a blog but sadly has closed it.

    Do you know about the Quiverfull email loop? You might find that a great resource for the specific problems you’re dealing with, as there are over a thousand subscribers.

    Amy, I’m so glad for your blog. Keep on writing! You are intelligent, witty, and yes, even intellectual.

    Comment by Margaret (June 1, 2006 @ 6:12 am )

29. Margaret and Jesse, thanks so much for your encouragement. We will continue to dig and pray. Maybe there ARE more little ones in store for us, God willing.

    Comment by Heather (June 1, 2006 @ 10:31 am )

30. Heather,
    I wholeheartedly agree with that children are a blessing from the LORD and that married people should not try to abstain from having them. The Bible says “Be fruitful and multiply”. However, I think to bind someone’s concsience with something other than the scriptures is wrong and legalistic. That being said, I think that the Bible does not picture marriage apart from having children but nowhere does it say you must have one after the other after the other in order to be fulfilling God’s desire. I do think it is wonderful when families have large families and raise them in the fear and love of the LORD but I do not think it is necessitated by Scriptures. To try to extrapolate from the scriptures that you must have 8 or 10 or more children to be considered doing what the scripture says is just not true. I have thought about this issue and searched the scriptures in prayer and I suggest you do the same(Psalm 127, Genesis 1). I have one child and am pregnant with my second but also have health issues that will prevent me from having more. I would not risk the health of me or my unborn child for the future of the family God has already blessed me with. I wholeheartedly agree that we have to trust God, but I also know that we are stewards of our bodies and I would not go out and stand on the highway and say “I am just going to trust God to keep me safe”. I do believe that God may put a God-fearing married woman in her child bearing years in such a positon where the danger to her body would be to great to carry more children. I also believe that he could still be pleased with you and the family you already have and not consider you to be in disobedience!!!

    p.s. I do agree though that sometimes dr.’s are wrong and that if your desire is for more children seek a second or third opinion for High risk obstetrics.

    Comment by candace (June 1, 2006 @ 11:27 am )

31. Candace, that is the plan. It’s a bit of a hike to get any specialist from where we live, but it is worth the effort to talk to someone is more specialized than our GP. Thanks

    Comment by Heather (June 2, 2006 @ 10:16 am )

32. Amy,
    As soon as I read the Sanger comment my mind went immediately to Philippians 2:10, “…every knee will bow…”. I have been mulling over this, and today as I was reading Psalm 10:13, “Why do the wicked renounce God? He has said in his heart, “You will not require and account.”" The wicked, full of pride reject the notion that there is a Standard above our own, one that whether they know it, like it, or believe it *will* be held for all of eternity. May He open the eyes of those who are blind, give them a new heart so that they may see now who He is and what He has done and is doing. Those who serve themselves with seemingly no accountability seek the will of the evil one and in doing so, like Sanger, have caused many to stumble and be held under bondage. With Christ there is freedom and abundant life.

    Comment by mrs.s. (June 2, 2006 @ 11:33 am )

33. LOL. I don’t stand on the Freeway and expect to be safe, either.

    But then, children are not speeding cars, or traffic accidents. Biblically, they are blessings. Getting smooshed by a car is *not*.

    Comment by Margaret (June 2, 2006 @ 4:38 pm )

34. I have been reading a lot lately in the ‘blog world’ about being a christian and having large families. I truly respect moms with lots of children, I truly do. Before I had children I didn’t want any and really only had one to please my husband, then I laid my eyes on my first born and fell deeply in love. I now love children and would have more if I could. This brings me to the point, I have 2 beautiful if not busy sons they are 7 and 2. I lost one between the boys. I concieve with realative ease and probably could have 10 children if conception were the end of pregnancy, as we all know it isn’t. Neither is the lobour and devilery, niether of mine were easy but that in and of itself would not stop me from having more. Its the nine months between, I was very ill, lifethreatening, each time and nearly died with the one that I lost. I have chosen with my husband and much prayer not to have anymore biological children. We believe that God gave us wisdom and as much as I am able I should be there for my two living sons and not leave them motherless. Of course God is in control of all things and if He sees fit to over ride my decision I would be more than willing to do His will. I guess it bothers me that some of the comments in Mail bag entry are not very sensitive to people who have challanges, I can say that they make me feel less of a christian because of our decision.

    Amy you have never made me feel that way, I read your blog almost every day and alway look forward to the encouragement that you give us moms. I guess I’ve just been hurt one time too many by people who don’t see the whole picture….everyones life is different. Any suggestions about how I might respond, if not in the comment box in my own heart, to this would be helpful….and yes I know I am over-sensitive, my husband and mom tell me that all the time.
    In Him
    Shari

    Comment by Shari (June 2, 2006 @ 10:42 pm )

35. Heather,
    Natural Family Planning is based on a husband and wife tracking the wife’s natural signs of fertility. This enables them to abstain from intercourse on fertile days if they desire to avoid conception (for Godly reasons). This means that they do not have to use any devices or chemicals to thwart God-given fertility, simply self-control and a little keeping track. I am a teenager and unmarried but I have heard many, many good things about NFP. It sounds like it would be very useful to you. You can learn about it here:
    God bless.

    Comment by Mary (June 6, 2006 @ 9:51 pm )

36. “simply self-control and a little keeping track.”

    Where do the scriptures teach that “natural” family-planning through forced abstinence is more godly than condoms???

    NFP is a violation of the clear commands of scripture to not withold yourself from your spouse except under very specific circumstances, which include the requirement to fast at the same time. See 1 Cor. 7.

    Comment by Nickey (June 6, 2006 @ 10:05 pm )

37. “Margaret Sanger made it possible for ALL women to choose when and if they have children. If not for her, birth control and information regarding it would not be readily available.

    Claiming her work was not Biblical holds her to your standards, not hers.”

    The ignorance of this letter is laughable at best. Birth control has been around and been in use for thousands of years. Onan had it figured out pretty well way back in Genesis.

    The failure rates of current birth control methods (resulting in women having abortions as back-up - They have admited that 54% of women who have abortions are doing so after “failed” birth-control.) and the damage it has done to countless women, is certainly not something that Sanger nor Planned Parenthood made/makes known to women they “educate”.

    Has this person ever read Sanger??? She clearly was anti-Christ in her belief. She wrote openly about her hatred of the Church, amongst other groups (blacks, invalids, “human weeds”, etc…) One of the key reasons she worked within the Church (and those who failed to hold to Sola Scriptura but rather embraced a liberal theology) was in an attempt to bring about its downfall (and rid the world of “human weeds”, aka blacks and anyone she considered inferior) - she makes this *very* clear in her writings.

    Comment by Nickey (June 6, 2006 @ 10:17 pm )

38. Dear Nickey, and interested parties,
    While the KJV does say “fasting and prayer”, the Vulgate says only “prayer”. You can see on this page (it has a translation). NFP means that there are periods of abstinence and periods of non-abstinence–a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing. Thus, this is indeed denying each other “by mutual consent, for a time.” The time spent denying each other is a chance to focus on communication, prayer, and other ways of expressing love.

    Here is a page explaining the Bible, contraception and NFP.

    I should mention that I am Catholic and therefore by teaching trained against (artificial) contraception. Periodic abstinence is morally neutral but can be used in accordance with God’s law. It says that if in despite of following the recommended days a baby should happen to come the couple is open to it. Artificial contraception says that the couple is not open to God’s gift of life.

    Comment by Mary (June 6, 2006 @ 10:43 pm )

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