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	<title>Comments on: Orthos, of the theological sort</title>
	<atom:link href="http://humblemusings.com/archives/2006/07/22/orthos-of-the-theological-sort/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://humblemusings.com/archives/2006/07/22/orthos-of-the-theological-sort/</link>
	<description>Family life commentary by Amy Scott.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 07:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: mommyof7</title>
		<link>http://humblemusings.com/archives/2006/07/22/orthos-of-the-theological-sort/#comment-39892</link>
		<dc:creator>mommyof7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://humblemusings.com/archives/2006/07/22/orthos-of-the-theological-sort/#comment-39892</guid>
		<description>I posted some pictures on my blog a little while ago of a little get-a-way weekend trip that we took -- we spotted the &lt;a href="http://birthdynamics.com/blog/?p=91" rel="nofollow"&gt;Amish parking section at the local Walmart&lt;/a&gt; and were told by the locals that the Amish love to buy lots of sugar and mountain dew at walmart!  I thought that was funny ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted some pictures on my blog a little while ago of a little get-a-way weekend trip that we took &#8212; we spotted the <a href="http://birthdynamics.com/blog/?p=91" rel="nofollow">Amish parking section at the local Walmart</a> and were told by the locals that the Amish love to buy lots of sugar and mountain dew at walmart!  I thought that was funny <img src='http://humblemusings.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Michelle-This One's for the Girls</title>
		<link>http://humblemusings.com/archives/2006/07/22/orthos-of-the-theological-sort/#comment-39718</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle-This One's for the Girls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:46:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://humblemusings.com/archives/2006/07/22/orthos-of-the-theological-sort/#comment-39718</guid>
		<description>Hi Margaret--

Well, I'm only referring to the many Amish that live just 10 miles down the road from me.  We have every brand of Amish you could wish to meet--as well as Mennonites and Dunkards.  My real knowledge comes from my dear friend who finally left and was gloriously saved soon thereafter.  Her testimony, coupled with her inside knowledge of the Amish are two things that have made my husband and I feel that the Amish should be a target of our evangelistic efforts.

But I love their homemade preserves and homegrown herbs--and shop in the H&#38;M Country store frequently.  My 7 year old daughter is completely enamoured with them (as we are constantly running into these folks) and has announced that she would like to be Amish when she grows up.  (The horse and buggy thing does it to her everytime.)  I bought her a bonnet for dress-up, but I am always quick to remind her that they don't believe in the free gift of salvation paid for by Jesus' blood; and as Bible believers we believe in "by grace alone," through "faith alone."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Margaret&#8211;</p>
<p>Well, I&#8217;m only referring to the many Amish that live just 10 miles down the road from me.  We have every brand of Amish you could wish to meet&#8211;as well as Mennonites and Dunkards.  My real knowledge comes from my dear friend who finally left and was gloriously saved soon thereafter.  Her testimony, coupled with her inside knowledge of the Amish are two things that have made my husband and I feel that the Amish should be a target of our evangelistic efforts.</p>
<p>But I love their homemade preserves and homegrown herbs&#8211;and shop in the H&amp;M Country store frequently.  My 7 year old daughter is completely enamoured with them (as we are constantly running into these folks) and has announced that she would like to be Amish when she grows up.  (The horse and buggy thing does it to her everytime.)  I bought her a bonnet for dress-up, but I am always quick to remind her that they don&#8217;t believe in the free gift of salvation paid for by Jesus&#8217; blood; and as Bible believers we believe in &#8220;by grace alone,&#8221; through &#8220;faith alone.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Margaret</title>
		<link>http://humblemusings.com/archives/2006/07/22/orthos-of-the-theological-sort/#comment-39704</link>
		<dc:creator>Margaret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jul 2006 10:52:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://humblemusings.com/archives/2006/07/22/orthos-of-the-theological-sort/#comment-39704</guid>
		<description>Michelle, I do think you are generalizing a bit. ;)

There are definately some cultish Amish and Mennonite groups.

There are also some cultish Baptist/Pentacostal/whatever churches scattered around.

But perhaps you haven't met people like the ones I've met, who's whole desire is to please the Lord.  And yes, they are Amish (Beachy, to be precise).  And yes, we have some doctrinal disagreements.  But their particular church is not cultish, nor are any of the Amish or Conservative Mennonite churches I've made friends in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michelle, I do think you are generalizing a bit. <img src='http://humblemusings.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>There are definately some cultish Amish and Mennonite groups.</p>
<p>There are also some cultish Baptist/Pentacostal/whatever churches scattered around.</p>
<p>But perhaps you haven&#8217;t met people like the ones I&#8217;ve met, who&#8217;s whole desire is to please the Lord.  And yes, they are Amish (Beachy, to be precise).  And yes, we have some doctrinal disagreements.  But their particular church is not cultish, nor are any of the Amish or Conservative Mennonite churches I&#8217;ve made friends in.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://humblemusings.com/archives/2006/07/22/orthos-of-the-theological-sort/#comment-39671</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jul 2006 01:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://humblemusings.com/archives/2006/07/22/orthos-of-the-theological-sort/#comment-39671</guid>
		<description>Forgive my ignorance, and but I've never heard of Bob Andy pie.  what is it?  (I've actually heard of Shoofly, but I don't know what's in that, either.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forgive my ignorance, and but I&#8217;ve never heard of Bob Andy pie.  what is it?  (I&#8217;ve actually heard of Shoofly, but I don&#8217;t know what&#8217;s in that, either.)</p>
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		<title>By: Claire's Husband</title>
		<link>http://humblemusings.com/archives/2006/07/22/orthos-of-the-theological-sort/#comment-39665</link>
		<dc:creator>Claire's Husband</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jul 2006 00:00:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://humblemusings.com/archives/2006/07/22/orthos-of-the-theological-sort/#comment-39665</guid>
		<description>For a great resource on the Amish lifestyle, I recommend referencing a critically acclaimed, modern artists work entitled "Living in an Amish Paradise."  This amazing work has given me much of my perspective on Amish life and I thank Wierd Al Yankovic for his deep insights and dedication to truth.

Ok, just kidding, but it is a funny video.

My wife had me reading this blog and I couldn't resist a comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For a great resource on the Amish lifestyle, I recommend referencing a critically acclaimed, modern artists work entitled &#8220;Living in an Amish Paradise.&#8221;  This amazing work has given me much of my perspective on Amish life and I thank Wierd Al Yankovic for his deep insights and dedication to truth.</p>
<p>Ok, just kidding, but it is a funny video.</p>
<p>My wife had me reading this blog and I couldn&#8217;t resist a comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Tracy</title>
		<link>http://humblemusings.com/archives/2006/07/22/orthos-of-the-theological-sort/#comment-39653</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jul 2006 20:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://humblemusings.com/archives/2006/07/22/orthos-of-the-theological-sort/#comment-39653</guid>
		<description>Oh, I would let you answer the question! ;)  But, then I love to liven' up the conversation. lol.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I would let you answer the question! <img src='http://humblemusings.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  But, then I love to liven&#8217; up the conversation. lol.</p>
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		<title>By: Another Heather</title>
		<link>http://humblemusings.com/archives/2006/07/22/orthos-of-the-theological-sort/#comment-39633</link>
		<dc:creator>Another Heather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jul 2006 15:04:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://humblemusings.com/archives/2006/07/22/orthos-of-the-theological-sort/#comment-39633</guid>
		<description>Wow! We went on a short vacation and look what happened here!  I have always romanticized the Amish, but never really wanted to become one.  The idea of emulating their self discipline and willingness to stand out is appealling.  However, the notion that changing your dress our other aspects of your lifestyle will create changes in your spirituality is, as others have pointed out, of course not correct.  While on vacation, we had a converstation with two elder ladies while standing in line for ice cream.  We were dressed in our longish shorts and tee shirts, trying to keep our kids out of the street and just being us when they struck up the conversation starting with "Are they twins?" and then it progressed to how many kids we had and what good manners they had to "You homeschool your children, don't you?"  This is a pretty typical kind of conversation when we take our family out.  We don't walk around with signs on our backs or make a point of telling people about our lifestyle convictions, but people notice.  What you are inside determines what others see outside and any pure sacrifice made for Christ eventually draws attention to Him.  Now, please don't get me wrong--I still lose my temper with the kids, we have too much junk, and my husband and I need to lose weight.  We have self discipline issues all over the place, but Christ motivates changes in us.  Self control alone is not adequate.  However, I really wish I had more self control so that others could see Christ more clearly in me.  And holding up the Amish (and others) as examples of self discipline, I think, is appropriate.  By the way, I don't think homeschoolers are more sanctified than others--that is just an example of one of the sweet sacrifices we are making for Christ.  Amy, thanks again for a thought provoking blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! We went on a short vacation and look what happened here!  I have always romanticized the Amish, but never really wanted to become one.  The idea of emulating their self discipline and willingness to stand out is appealling.  However, the notion that changing your dress our other aspects of your lifestyle will create changes in your spirituality is, as others have pointed out, of course not correct.  While on vacation, we had a converstation with two elder ladies while standing in line for ice cream.  We were dressed in our longish shorts and tee shirts, trying to keep our kids out of the street and just being us when they struck up the conversation starting with &#8220;Are they twins?&#8221; and then it progressed to how many kids we had and what good manners they had to &#8220;You homeschool your children, don&#8217;t you?&#8221;  This is a pretty typical kind of conversation when we take our family out.  We don&#8217;t walk around with signs on our backs or make a point of telling people about our lifestyle convictions, but people notice.  What you are inside determines what others see outside and any pure sacrifice made for Christ eventually draws attention to Him.  Now, please don&#8217;t get me wrong&#8211;I still lose my temper with the kids, we have too much junk, and my husband and I need to lose weight.  We have self discipline issues all over the place, but Christ motivates changes in us.  Self control alone is not adequate.  However, I really wish I had more self control so that others could see Christ more clearly in me.  And holding up the Amish (and others) as examples of self discipline, I think, is appropriate.  By the way, I don&#8217;t think homeschoolers are more sanctified than others&#8211;that is just an example of one of the sweet sacrifices we are making for Christ.  Amy, thanks again for a thought provoking blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Heather</title>
		<link>http://humblemusings.com/archives/2006/07/22/orthos-of-the-theological-sort/#comment-39491</link>
		<dc:creator>Heather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jul 2006 18:17:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://humblemusings.com/archives/2006/07/22/orthos-of-the-theological-sort/#comment-39491</guid>
		<description>Amy -

I realized after going back and reading all the comments that no one was tearing you down ... sorry about that!  I tried to go back and edit my comment, but couldn't ... oh well!

:)

I just assumed what I said because I see it all too often and it just bugs me!  I guess what they say happens when you assume is true - LOL ;)

Be blessed!!

~Heather</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amy -</p>
<p>I realized after going back and reading all the comments that no one was tearing you down &#8230; sorry about that!  I tried to go back and edit my comment, but couldn&#8217;t &#8230; oh well!</p>
<p> <img src='http://humblemusings.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I just assumed what I said because I see it all too often and it just bugs me!  I guess what they say happens when you assume is true - LOL <img src='http://humblemusings.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Be blessed!!</p>
<p>~Heather</p>
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		<title>By: Carrie</title>
		<link>http://humblemusings.com/archives/2006/07/22/orthos-of-the-theological-sort/#comment-39490</link>
		<dc:creator>Carrie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jul 2006 18:11:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://humblemusings.com/archives/2006/07/22/orthos-of-the-theological-sort/#comment-39490</guid>
		<description>Shoofly and Bob Andy pies. Even though we may not agree with Amish theology, hopefully we can all agree that those Amish sure have some great pie names.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shoofly and Bob Andy pies. Even though we may not agree with Amish theology, hopefully we can all agree that those Amish sure have some great pie names.</p>
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		<title>By: Atlantic</title>
		<link>http://humblemusings.com/archives/2006/07/22/orthos-of-the-theological-sort/#comment-39488</link>
		<dc:creator>Atlantic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jul 2006 16:01:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://humblemusings.com/archives/2006/07/22/orthos-of-the-theological-sort/#comment-39488</guid>
		<description>Hi again, Amy!  To answer your questions from the last comments, they've been working me hard at the office and I don't have much time lately. I've been posting occassionaly at &lt;a href="http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com/intellectuelle/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Intellectuelle&lt;/a&gt;.

I definitely agree with eating the good stuff and spitting out the pips!

Shannon is right that the Amish stood out a lot less a hundred years or so ago, although IIRC they had already made choices that marked them out from others from the beginning - I think that buttons, for example, were fashionably militaristic at the time, so the Amish made prohibitions on them. 

I think one would see this effect any time a group makes an commitment (explicit or otherwise) to a particular sort of dress or other cultural element - even if they allow slow change, they'll become more and more different to contemporary fashions. Judge's robes, Catholic vestments and religious habits, Orthodox Jewish Chassidic clothes were all once nearly normal clothing for a given time and place.

Externals vs internals is one of those find-the-right-balance things - after all, we are creatures that are a union of body and soul. If our internal state doesn't bear external fruit and evidences, there's something wrong. Externals &lt;i&gt;can&lt;/i&gt; be very helpful, but it is also really important not to let them become a crutch or a replacement for one's heart.  They should be like the old definition of a sacrament, an outward sign of an inward grace.

It reminds me of wedding rings. AFAIK, no Christian denomination actually requires wedding rings as a point of doctrine, nor any other external sign that one is married. Yet (at least in the UK and US) most married women wear them (and a growing number of men). The wedding ring isn't a substitute for a loving marriage, but it does function as a reminder to oneself and others of the existence and nature of the married state. This tradition has enough force that we would probably wonder a little about a married woman who &lt;i&gt;didn't&lt;/i&gt; wear one (aside from poverty or practicality in a particular situation), or - especially - anyone who stops wearing one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi again, Amy!  To answer your questions from the last comments, they&#8217;ve been working me hard at the office and I don&#8217;t have much time lately. I&#8217;ve been posting occassionaly at <a href="http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com/intellectuelle/" rel="nofollow">Intellectuelle</a>.</p>
<p>I definitely agree with eating the good stuff and spitting out the pips!</p>
<p>Shannon is right that the Amish stood out a lot less a hundred years or so ago, although IIRC they had already made choices that marked them out from others from the beginning - I think that buttons, for example, were fashionably militaristic at the time, so the Amish made prohibitions on them. </p>
<p>I think one would see this effect any time a group makes an commitment (explicit or otherwise) to a particular sort of dress or other cultural element - even if they allow slow change, they&#8217;ll become more and more different to contemporary fashions. Judge&#8217;s robes, Catholic vestments and religious habits, Orthodox Jewish Chassidic clothes were all once nearly normal clothing for a given time and place.</p>
<p>Externals vs internals is one of those find-the-right-balance things - after all, we are creatures that are a union of body and soul. If our internal state doesn&#8217;t bear external fruit and evidences, there&#8217;s something wrong. Externals <i>can</i> be very helpful, but it is also really important not to let them become a crutch or a replacement for one&#8217;s heart.  They should be like the old definition of a sacrament, an outward sign of an inward grace.</p>
<p>It reminds me of wedding rings. AFAIK, no Christian denomination actually requires wedding rings as a point of doctrine, nor any other external sign that one is married. Yet (at least in the UK and US) most married women wear them (and a growing number of men). The wedding ring isn&#8217;t a substitute for a loving marriage, but it does function as a reminder to oneself and others of the existence and nature of the married state. This tradition has enough force that we would probably wonder a little about a married woman who <i>didn&#8217;t</i> wear one (aside from poverty or practicality in a particular situation), or - especially - anyone who stops wearing one.</p>
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