The next step
Wednesday, Jan 31, 2007
Lately, most of my time online is spent researching property and plans as we make forward steps with buying acreage. (Background info. is mostly here and here.) I said that I’d journal our journey, and I hesitate talking aloud on things that aren’t a done deal. But in the event that it might be helpful to others or cause us to rethink some things that need adjusting, I’ll keep updating.
Costs vs. location
The further out you go, the cheaper land gets. We have set a budget of 2,000 an acre for pasture and water, so this limits many locations. We’d rather be connected with a local community: living, working, playing, and worshipping with the people who are our neighbors. Finding the right balance has consumed a lot of time. We’ve tentatively narrowed it to South Central Kentucky and South Central Tennessee.
Building a house vs. buying an existing house
We’ve remodeled two houses (while living in them) to suit our growing family. Most dining rooms accommodate a family of four just fine, but that makes buying a house for a larger family more difficult. If you do a cost analysis of building new vs. buying old, it’s generally a wash. In other words, you can’t remodel a house with the money you’ve saved unless the existing house is greatly discounted for its poor condition.
Experience has taught us that it is better to start from scratch than to demolish and remodel. It is cheaper as well. When Greg raised our kitchen ceiling, he found plumbing that went diagonal instead of around the perimeter. When he opened a wall one time, he found no insulation and access to the outside. So a good rule of thumb is to always take a reasonable time estimate and then quintuple it.
Another idea we’re considering is building a house that relies on solar energy, wood heat, and water from a spring house or well. This would cost more initially, but in the long run, it would save us a bundle. I’m not sure if this puts us technically “off-grid” or not, but I like the idea of saving money and greening the earth a little.
What’s next
We anticipate a trip to buy land sometime near the beginning of March. We have a few lose ends to tie up before that, but it seems we’re on schedule. In the meantime, we’re getting more information on properties that would suit us, fiddling with possible floor plans to show local builders, and getting our house in sellable condition.
Who cares?
The end of all this is God’s glory. (I elaborated on the “how” of this in earlier posts.) You can decide now to raise your children to the glory of God by loving God and resisting the god of this age wherever you’re at. To wit, this doesn’t mean that we freak out when our children hear others cussing, so we need to run to the country where they’re too busy chewing to cuss. (I actually don’t mind my children witnessing vulgarity.) That’s not what being holy looks like. Rather, we purpose to teach them to love God and to resist the things of the world by insulating them within.
Consumerism is the god of America’s children. Cultivating contentment is the response. When we are discontent, we are not grumbling about our circumstances, per se. We are actually grumbling, raising our fists against God. Who owns it all? Who provides for our every need? When we complain and practice discontentment, we tell God that He is not sufficient.
Rick Saenz answered me in a comment today:
Although the most people throughout history have lived satisfactory lives as subsistence farmers, they also lived very differently than we live now. (I’ll post some more about that later today.) As we fret over how to provide a good and sustainable life for our children, we spend less time worrying about generating sufficient material wealth than we do raising them to be content with much less wealth that their parents have become dependent on.
Since godliness with contentment is great gain, we measure our steps and make deliberate choices to live our lives accordingly with God’s help.
39 Comments
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Woo-hoo! Think I’m the first post! Amy, do I get a prize?
This is, as usual, a thoughtful post from you. One thing that puzzles, and somehow troubles, me is the tendency I seem to observe among American fundamentalist Christians to, quite literally, run away from other people. Now, if you want to live entirely isolated, hey, that’s your call. But a degree of isolationism–that seems to be accompanied by what I can only call pride–is evident in more and more commentary I read on this, and, as I say, it puzzles me.
The idea of becoming less-dependent on things one cannot control, and on treating the earth with a little more thoughtfulness, can only be commended. But I’m glad to hear you say that you don’t mind your children witnessing vulgarity–not because vulgarity builds character or is somehow good in itself, but because we need to have confidence that what we teach our children can stand up to difference and to testing–and the only way to tell if it can is to allow children some exposure to those differences and tests, and explain and contextualise it for them.
I also don’t think (as I know you don’t) that owning more and more land is in any way necessary to being godly or raising other godly people. The ability to live in and adapt to any surroundings is a sure help in the process of being able to be our true selves independent of the geographical / physical circumstances life might throw at us.
I’m child-free, but even I know that!
Hope you enjoy your land-buying jaunt. We’ll be anxious to hear about it!
Comment by Mrs. P. (January 31, 2007 @ 4:53 pm )
What a blessing to be able to own land and use it to its fullest potential… I pray that everything works out!
Comment by Alida Sharp (January 31, 2007 @ 5:24 pm )
Dear Mrs. P,
The prize is yours!
Here are my thoughts. While there are certainly many people who move to the country for wrong reasons (God has not given us a spirit of fear…), likewise there are many people who move to the city for godless reasons (to waste their lives on hedonistic city pleasures). God’s Church is in the African brush, the jungles of South America, New York City, and Antarctica. (Well, maybe not that last one.)
We exist for God’s glory. The best way to glorify God is not always to reach the largest amount of people (supposing the country somehow limited you), but to be faithful where He calls you. If moving to the inner city to reach tons of people was the best calling, God would not create disabled people, families with many young children, or the elderly confined to their beds. His glory is seen in our weakness, our confinement, our position, our lowly state.
Years ago I read a book on church growth (when Greg was a pastor), and the gist was that God requires faithfulness, and that numbers and apparent success did not equate with God’s smile.
It’s kind of funny having this conversation on the internet, isn’t it? I was accused awhile back of retreating, at the same time my unique visitor stats were approaching 1/2 million.
I would argue that the last thing we’re guilty of is isolationism, but as to the point about pride, I pray that God would honor my repentance.
In my original post (which I’m restating for others, not you Mrs. P because you’ve been around awhile!), the land is an investment and one way to give our children a better start. If you want a 1/3 acre lot in our town, it will cost you 100k. Why resign yourself to a life of debt? Why not plunk down 2k now? If God calls them somewhere else, they will go with our blessing. But I would rather spend 2k now than bury a talent into more depreciating stuff.
Thanks for indulging me.
Comment by Amy Scott (January 31, 2007 @ 5:55 pm )
Amy,
I’m grateful you’re updating us on your journey. I’ve been wondering…
Do you have family and/or friends who are set to move with you?
~Stacy
Comment by Stacy (January 31, 2007 @ 8:20 pm )
Amy,
I’ve been a lurker for quite awhile, and, although I don’t always agree with you, I find that your writing often inspires me to think deeply about my relationship with God and to the world around me, which, given the craziness of my life, is no small feat.
I wish you much joy in this next chapter of your life, and I look forward to reading about your family’s newest adventures.
Comment by Karen (January 31, 2007 @ 8:23 pm )
The enthusiasm seems to wax and wane. We’ll see.
A lot of people say that…
Comment by Amy Scott (January 31, 2007 @ 8:58 pm )
Relying only on solar power does put you “off the grid”
(thus sayeth the wanna-be appraiser)
Comment by Catherine (January 31, 2007 @ 9:00 pm )
Amy-
You might also investigate geothermal energy…it both heats and cools the house, which would be a plus in either Kentucky or Tennessee! Solar energy could then heat all of your hot water for minimal up front cost. My husband and I hope to use both geothermal and solar options if we are ever able to build. And, as you mentioned, a wood stove (or stoves) would supplement your heating if need be (or just give you a warm place to snuggle up in the winter!).
Comment by Stephanie (January 31, 2007 @ 9:10 pm )
Amy,
Ditto on the geothermal heating, esp. if you are building. Also, are you thinking wood heat inside or outside? My dh built a outside wood boiler to heat the house at our last home, but is now a few weeks away from installing the outside corn stove/boiler he just designed and built for this house. They are both good options that don’t require the constant hauling of wood into your house. If you’ve never relied completely on wood for heat before, talk to someone who has and make sure you know what you’re getting into. Or maybe you DO know and you’re just planning on forming the character of your oldest with an ax and a woodpile. : ) We mistakenly did our all-wood heat when we had four kids under 4. In Ohio. In an uninsulated 1890 home. There was no time to insulate because I was nursing and he was cutting wood.
All that said, thanks for posting about your plans — very interesting!
Comment by Heather (January 31, 2007 @ 9:34 pm )
…and, although I don’t always agree with you, I find…
A lot of people say that…
They say the same about me!
Comment by Karen (January 31, 2007 @ 9:51 pm )
Amy - Glad to get the update. We feel like we’re doing this right alongside you and your family as we are now looking for a job closer to family and the property that my father bought for the same purposes as you are land-hunting. We’re making decisions about electricity, etc, right now, too, and it’s overwhelming. Just wanted you to know that there are others out there taking these steps with you. Keep us posted!
Lora Lynn
Comment by Lora Lynn (January 31, 2007 @ 9:52 pm )
Thanks for sharing your journey with us, Amy, so those in “hope-to-be” similar situation can learn from you.
Comment by Andrea (January 31, 2007 @ 10:17 pm )
[...] *** I popped over to visit Amy’s Humble Musings tonight, and MAN, do I wish I could write with such authority. She said: Consumerism is the god of America’s children. Cultivating contentment is the response. When we are discontent, we are not grumbling about our circumstances, per se. We are actually grumbling, raising our fists against God. Who owns it all? Who provides for our every need? When we complain and practice discontentment, we tell God that He is not sufficient. [...]
Pingback by Mom 2 Mom Connection Blog Archive » I’m a Nice Mama Today (January 31, 2007 @ 10:58 pm )
So sad to hear you won’t be moving to Georgia! Kentucky and Tennessee seem like good places too — still in the South!
I’ve found that I’ve gotten to know more people since moving to the country because I take the extra effort to keep up my blog and email. Actually, blogging saves me a ton of time — old high school and college friends keep up with me this way, and I can blast them all at once!
If I lived in the city, with Starbucks, the mall, and millions of sights to see, I’d probably be too busy to write.
Comment by Heather (January 31, 2007 @ 11:13 pm )
And I am just so glad that Lora Lynn and Amy are both moving closer to my neck of the woods! Woo Hoo! Exciting times! Many prayers for your families as you step by step draw closer to the big move.
Comment by Aubrey (January 31, 2007 @ 11:14 pm )
Hi, Amy. I discovered your blog through Christian Women Online and I’ve really enjoyed reading your posts so far. I wanted to let you know that your decision to “move to the country” will benefit your family greatly. I’m from a small town in Saskatchewan, CANADA, and we recently moved to a 17-acre site with the house, well, out-buildings, etc. already set up. We’ve been here for just over a month and I can already tell that our entire family is much, much happier in general. I think the open space and peacefulness does that for a person. We considered buying land and building too, but it was way beyond our budget, especially when considering digging a well, and having power and electricity brought in. However, in our researching the possibility of buying land and building new, we were impressed with the Geo-thermal concept. It’s costly initially, but in the long run it saves money and is helpful for the environment.
I hope all goes well for you as you pursue this exciting phase of your life. Exciting yes, and stressful too. I just lived through it, so I know how excited yet overwhelmed you may be feeling right now.
Take care. I hope to be back soon to check out your next post.
Comment by Kimmy (January 31, 2007 @ 11:19 pm )
Well, I think it’s awesome that you want all of those things for your children and your family. If the Lord ever calls us into that situation, I would be more than happy to go. Right now, he has called us to the desert. We have very little space of our own, but He has given us such a blessing in that our lives are much more calm. Now we are living and learning together, rather than running around the city non-stop with the little kids growing up in their car seats. God knows where we are in our lives and leads us to where we need to go.
Comment by BH (February 1, 2007 @ 3:10 am )
We have built new and remodeled old. There are upsides and downsides to each. On our last move, we just couldn’t find anything to suit our needs, especially since my husband would be working from home and needed a home office away from the hustle and bustle of busy home school activity (and noise). We ended up designing our home and are still pleased with the set up 6 years later. We didn’t go solar, but did put in two wood burning stoves to heat our home. They keep us nice and toasty on these frigid days and nights. They don’t require any electricity either. Even though my husband no longer cuts our wood it is nice to support someone in our local economy to do the cutting for us instead of foreign oil. Blessings
Comment by GardenOfGrace (February 1, 2007 @ 3:13 am )
I am so very excited to read about what your learning for your new home. Thank you for sharing!!!
We, too, would like to have land somewhere, where we could enjoy our family instead of our family enjoying “stuff” in our area. There is a Rich Mullins song that says “…the stuff of earth competes for the allegiance I owe only to the Giver of all good things…” and that is how we would like it to be.
His,
Mrs. U
Comment by Mrs. U (February 1, 2007 @ 9:50 am )
Amy,
Although I’ve been sidetracked a bit of late with the birth of our 4th, I am a majority of the way done with posts on building a house using universal design. If you are playing with house plans, you may want to consider some of the principles. Just a thought…
I’m excited for you!!
Comment by Heidi (February 1, 2007 @ 10:22 am )
Amy - thanks for the update. I’ve been wondering how things were progressing.
We have remodeled twice…it is hard, I think.
But maybe that’s just because we had so many young children at the time. And because we didn’t do just SMALL remodeling, but plumbing from top to bottom in a 3 level house AND down to the studs remodeling of a 120 yr. old house. MESSY! I would love to build an efficient house!
RE: letting our children see vulgarity…First, there are levels of vulgarity! Some can’t be avoided, and yes, I feel they should (age appropriately) be able to stand against it and know what is right and what is wrong…but there is a difference between seeing vulgarity and immersing our children in vulgarity. I don’t choose to immerse…
Comment by Holly (February 1, 2007 @ 10:28 am )
Wonderful post!!! I am so excited for you… and Tennessee will be closer to me! You are living our dream! We are doing similar research and weighing our options. We can all be first generation agrarians together… and maybe I’ll even be able to grow a decent tomato this year!
Comment by Lady Why (February 1, 2007 @ 11:31 am )
[...] *** I popped over to visit Amy’s Humble Musings tonight, and MAN, do I wish I could write with such authority. She said: Consumerism is the god of America’s children. Cultivating contentment is the response. When we are discontent, we are not grumbling about our circumstances, per se. We are actually grumbling, raising our fists against God. Who owns it all? Who provides for our every need? When we complain and practice discontentment, we tell God that He is not sufficient. [...]
Comment by Mom2MomConnection (February 1, 2007 @ 11:46 am )
Hi Amy, wow-how exciting to be taking on this adventure! what your family is doing is a dream of mine…but we don’t feel called to leave where we are at right now. But, we seem to be farmers at heart. We live in So. Ca, with a small backyard, but we have a garden-that hubby just enlarged, we compost, have 5 chickens. Hubby wanted to start a bee-hive, but the neighbors would not have understood that. Maybe someday.
I am looking forward to following your adventure!
God bless you and your family
Comment by Jenny in Ca (February 1, 2007 @ 1:26 pm )
RE: vulgarity
It’s funny you say this, Amy… something we noticed about our kids when we went to Thailand was that they became even more aware about idols and the sin of it, because they actually saw what it really looked like and we were able to dialogue about the real tragedy of idolatry, rather than just a textbook study of it. The same is true with vulgarity, bullying, and a great many other sins we often try to “protect” our kids from seeing or experiencing- often, the experience if discussed afterwards, can give them a much more strong foundation, because you can study it in terms of God’s word, teaching them.
All too often, Christian parents try to shield their kids from all things sinful and avoid discussing such depraved things and then find their children have succumbed to the very things they were “protected” from throughout their youth.
Thanks for this post- it’s interesting to read of your plans and desires…
Blessings,
Comment by Jess (February 1, 2007 @ 1:49 pm )
Right. I think I could’ve worded that better, but I wrote this in 15 minutes and didn’t wait to post.
******
Here are Heidi’s posts on universal design.
I think that’s my favorite song. Greg used to have it as his cell phone ring thing.
Comment by Amy Scott (February 1, 2007 @ 2:24 pm )
My daughter sometimes would ask me if I had read your blog. Now I know why. She would love to move to the country too plus you have some wonderful articles here. I wish I could have had the chance to buy property and have my family grow up on it and stay together but it wan’t in the plans. But I can still dream and pray and be content with what I have for the moment. Blessings.
Comment by Abiga/Karen (February 1, 2007 @ 2:42 pm )
South or Middle Tennessee would be a great option. Marion Lovett from Atlanta has started a Presbyterian work in Middle Tennessee.
Comment by Anonymous (February 1, 2007 @ 8:01 pm )
Hey Amy,
A friend told me about your blog. I’ve enjoyed what I’ve read. Since I haven’t been a long time reader I am curious to know if the availability of Bible-preaching churches in the area (Kentucky or Tennessee) factor in to your relocation decision. You may have already addressed this issue in other posts. For our family, finding a good church came after the move. I can say now that it will be the first consideration for us should another opportunity to move arise.
Comment by Anonymous (February 1, 2007 @ 8:35 pm )
Anonymous,
We made a move to where we are now without knowing anything about churches. As it happened, our lovely ARP church is 1/4 mile from our house. We love that church and living so close. It usually doesn’t turn out that perfectly, though. We don’t take it for granted.
The reason we settled on the TN area is for the good priced acreage, the farming/Amish community, and two possible churches in the area: one an ARP and the other a PCA.
The KY region holds other intriguing factors, one of which is that I found a pastured parcel with ponds and a creek for about 1500/acre. I grew up in very charasmatic churches (emphasis on the word “very”) and now we attend a liturgical church in the Associate Reformed Presbyterian denomination, for what it’s worth. Finding a church is a huge factor, and we are trusting God to lead.
Comment by Amy Scott (February 1, 2007 @ 9:49 pm )
You can’t go wrong with southcentral
Ky.! God’s fingerprints are everywhere!
Comment by Tracy (February 2, 2007 @ 12:49 am )
If you end up near Somerset,Ky. Community Baptist might be what you’re looking for. I’ll be praying for you.
Comment by Tracy (February 2, 2007 @ 12:56 am )
Oh, how I can vouch for that time thing…we are currently remodeling our bathroom (a much over-due task) and it has taken way more money and time than we originally thought it would.
Tracy
Comment by Lines From The Vine (February 2, 2007 @ 12:20 pm )
I think the term “Blessed-Less” would be more appopriate than “Child-Free”. Just an observation from someone who has a quiver full.
John
Deut 6:4-9
Comment by John - Husband of a Regular Reader (February 2, 2007 @ 11:09 pm )
We have just begun our journey to build a house (and read on to find out the REALLY COOL IDEA we had!), and your post really echoed my heart. We started out with the idea of “bigger and better” of course. Expecting our 7th child, we tended to imagine this humongous house. But as we pondered it, I begin to think more like, “how can we build the smallest, most cost efficient house with adequate accomodations? Am I content if we never get to build? (We have lived in a mobile home which GREATLY tests my humility on a daily basis!) We’ve cut our plans back to a 2500 sq. feet house, and since my dad and husband are building it, we’ll be able to build for much less. AND HERE’S THE REALLY COOL PART…We are attaching a SILO onto the house, and outfitting it as a coffee and dessert shop on the weekends!!!(There is no place within a 50 mile radius of us to run and grab coffee at night). It will serve as a supplement to our incomce and afford lots of working opportunities for our family (not to mention ministry opportunities as we have strangers coming virtually right into our home! Maybe the idea will spur another family who is thinking to earn some extra income without taking Daddy away more. JUST MY THOUGHTS!!!
Comment by Kelly (February 3, 2007 @ 1:00 pm )
Amy-
We, too, felt God’s call to move to a place where we could spread out and enjoy His creation. God has affirmed our move to Vermont many times, most recently on Saturday. We are in the process of building a timber frame, and building our skills as a family in working together on this mammoth project (see our web site for pictures).
My advice about wood heat is to build a masonry heater - much more efficient and environmentally friendly. More expensive initially, but much better in the long run.
May God bless you as you pursue His vision for you and your family.
Comment by Lee Gustafson (February 5, 2007 @ 12:08 pm )
Update on the web site address: it should be http://www.truevine.net/~gus@truevine.net/
Comment by Lee Gustafson (February 5, 2007 @ 5:21 pm )
Hi Amy. Got your link from Reformed Grits. I totally agree with you on all points. I just have a question for my own clarity. When you said…”Rather, we purpose to teach them to love God and to resist the things of the world by insulating them within,” what did you mean by we insulate them within? I’m not disagreeing with you, just want to know your thoughts. Thanks.
Comment by Kristi (February 11, 2007 @ 10:46 pm )
[...] I popped over to visit Amy’s Humble Musings tonight, and MAN, do I wish I could write with such authority. She said: Consumerism is the god of [...]
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