Liver function and hyperemesis
Monday, Apr 30, 2007
Holly asked about a theory I alluded to about why some women are more nauseous than others during pregnancy. She asked about it in the comment section below, but I moved it up here in case anyone could add anything.
In half the women who are hospitalized for hyperemesis, liver enzymes are elevated. I can’t tell via the online research if the poor liver function is a result of the hyperemesis or if the liver abnormalities were preexisting, which contributed to the vomiting. My theory is this: hyperemesis can be better controlled with better liver support. Shonda Parker, author of Naturally Healthy Pregnancy, recommends Milk Thistle to support the liver, and the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.
Doctors recommend the new birth control patch because it doesn’t cause nausea. (I’m not recommending it—just explaining.) Why? Because the hormones bypass the liver; they’re not metabolized. Many recommend the patch especially for women who can’t stomach low-dose birth control pills. This seems to indicate that liver function can either help/hurt with the influx of progesterone and estrogen during the first trimester, depending on how well it is working. The liver plays a valuable role on how hormones are handled.
My theory is to try a liver cleanse, following-up with Milk Thistle and high protein diet before a pregnancy. Of course, I didn’t get to try this time since I was nursing Charles at the time. But if anyone finds this via Google, struggles with nausea and vomiting during pregnancy, and tries out my theory, feel free to comment.
There are many causes of morning sickness, but I don’t see too much research on this angle. Probably because I’m way off. As an aside, I wonder how many male readers are left here.
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LOL!
I guess I have a bad liver.
I have heard of the milk thistle thing.
Maybe I’ll try it…that is, if I remember.
Comment by Andrea (April 30, 2007 @ 8:23 pm )
A family practice doctor once told me (after my pregnancy test came back positive) that women couldn’t get pregnant while nursing. My daughter was 6 months old. I never went back to him.
Comment by Janet (April 30, 2007 @ 8:37 pm )
Janet,
Yes, I have read about Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing.
I had a 22-month-old and a THREE-MONTH-OLD and found myself pregnant with our third– even though I was nursing fully, co-sleeping, and using no pacifiers or supplements. I lost that baby in the second trimester and am convinced that I just wasn’t physically able to do it again. You can imagine the things people said…
I feel compassion and unassuming about the choices people make for this (within Biblical reason, of course).
Comment by Amy Scott (April 30, 2007 @ 8:57 pm )
One more thing, Janet. Your family practitioner probably wasn’t aware of the nitty-gritty details of lactational amenorrhea method, or LAM. While lactation generally suppresses ovulation, three conditions have to be met: no supplements (solids or formula) and baby can’t be sleeping through the night or going long stretches without nursing, no return of menses, and baby must be less than 6-months-old.
Comment by Amy Scott (April 30, 2007 @ 9:04 pm )
Amy,
It is interesting that you’ve been thinking about this, because my doctor (who is also a herbalist) talks a lot about liver function and hormones. I haven’t found much other stuff written on it either, but my gut feeling is that in my case, she is definitely right. I also had a hard time with morning sickness with my three children. Even now (when not pregnant) I find that I’ll get morning sickness symptoms when I get really overtired and I usually see this as a warning that my liver is not coping that well. Milk thistle works well to get me back on track again!
Nicole
Comment by Nicole Starling (May 1, 2007 @ 12:05 am )
I don’t think I made myself clear in my comment. I was in his office, he brought the test back to me and said it was positive but that it was impossible to get pregnant while nursing. I felt like saying ‘DUH, Well, I am so what do you say to that’!?
I was nursing full time but like you said my baby was sleeping through the night. It was and is hard for me to understand how this man made it through med school without a basic understanding of a woman’s cycle. We rejoiced at the news of our pregnancy and I was pregnant again 11 months after my son was born.
Comment by Janet (May 1, 2007 @ 12:30 am )
Just to confuse the issue even further……I have 5 chlidren and the earliest ovulation has returned was 13 months (more usual is 15-16 months). Now I do breastfeed until 18 months (that’s when I get pregnant!) but ALL my babies sleep 8-10 hours straight by 8 weeks (well all except my last baby who had a few medical issues but we will conveniently forget about his stats!). Baby number 4 was sleeping 11 hours straight by 3 weeks (in retrospect I should have woken him up, he really needed to feed). I am generally nursing either just once or not at all before I start ovulating again. Why? I have often wondered why my body works this way and my good friend has her periods return at 4-6 weeks no matter what she does. It is good to know the Lord is in control of all of this but I would love to know if there is a scientific reason for this difference.
Rachael in Australia
Comment by Rachael (May 1, 2007 @ 3:00 am )
Amy,
About the milk thistle … I mentioned in reply to one of your previous posts (or Greg’s) that daily doses of this have been extremely helpful for me in my current pregnancy.
I just wanted to add that I didn’t start taking it until I was already a few months along, and I didn’t do any “cleanse” beforehand. In spite of that, after several weeks of taking the milk thistle, there was a noticeable change and by about 4 months along I was almost completely “cured” of the horrible all-day/all-night sickness. With my 3 previous pregnancies, I was sick the whole 9 months.
Just an encouragement to you that it’s most likely not too late to start taking it, if you haven’t already.
Thanks for your honest and Jesus-focused words in the midst of everything.
Comment by emily (May 1, 2007 @ 3:21 am )
I have had 6 pregnancies and no morning sickenss with any of them. I have often wondered how I have not experiened what other women have when they are pregnant.
Maria
Comment by maria (May 1, 2007 @ 9:16 am )
Amy, thanks for responding! Sorry to take awhile to get over here. My DH had surgery last week.
Oh, I fully agree with what you are saying. Your thoughts are completely supportable in the alternative/natural medicine world. In fact - it would just be common knowledge, I think. Your liver HAS to be healthy to handle pregnancy.
I agree with the above commentor who says that you can improve the situation even while pregnant, that a cleanse isn’t necessary. I’ve thought of cleansing for several years now, but have been either pregnant or nursing so that was impossible.
Milk thistle, or any of the “bitter herbs” can help. Lemon juice - fresh squeezed and flavored with stevia to sweeten can help. Drink it throughout the day. Don’t use the bottled kind, because it actually increases acid in your body, while the freshly squozed
kind makes you more alkaline.
It isn’t instant help - but can help over time.
Feeling horrible through pregnancy was one of the things that caused me to “get serious” between pregnancies. Knowing that there might not be very much time between babies makes me KNOW that I can’t mess around. Good health/nutrition/exercise has to take place during pregnancy (as soon as you are able to stand up, of course.)
but has to get serious as soon as baby is born and recuperation has taken place.
I try to support the adrenals/thyroid/female hormones and eat as pure/fresh food as possible. Following some of my pregnancies, I have felt very toxic. I haven’t been able to tolerate chemicals in deoderant, laundry detergent, perfume…nothing. I have known then that i am greatly imbalanced.
Eliminating sugar, white flour, processed foods, chemicals, and yes - a diet high in protein has been important for me, as well as the lemon juice and supplementary herbs/vitamins.
I recognize that much of this sounds overwhelming, particularly when one is in the depths of feeling gross. But feel hopeful -(please!!!!) because there is much that can be done as you progress through the rest of this pregnancy and then following.
Much love to you, Amy. I’m praying for you!
Comment by Holly (May 1, 2007 @ 10:28 am )
Way back when I was seeing an “alternative” allergist, the nurse mentioned how she had a friend in the hospital for hypermesis. This nurse went to the hospital and brought her neutralizing doses for progesterone. She found the right dose for her pregnant friend (the theory was that she was allergic to the higher levels of progesterone in pregnancy) and the friend was ready to leave the hospital within the hour, it so completely relieved her nausea. The nurse did mention, however, that she tried this with another expectant mother and it was not as effective.
I tried this approach with one of my pregnancies and it did help in the beginning. I think my neutralizing dose changed, though, and I didn’t go back to the allergist for an adjustment.
Like you have mentioned, morning sickness probably has different causes in different women. It can’t hurt to look into as many “causes” as possible and see if any of the “treatments” help in any way!
Comment by Jennifer (May 1, 2007 @ 11:27 am )
I, like Rachael, am curious/intrigued by the variety of responses women’s bodies have to breastfeeding and LAM. Why the extreme differences? What role does genetics play? And how much is due to lifestyle (which is also influenced by our upbringing)? And then how much is simply … God’s plan for each family? It’s confusing to me because I’m one of the ones whose cycles take much longer to return. It’s difficult to know how to encourage my friends whose cycles return right away. Any thoughts?
(Yeah - after topics like this I wonder, too, how many male readers you’ve got left!)
Comment by Carole (May 1, 2007 @ 11:36 am )
Very interesting. If liver function is tied to hormones, I wonder of milk thistle could help with PMS, too???
Comment by ruth (May 1, 2007 @ 2:09 pm )
Well, it looks like I’m not the only one wondering.
Yeah. Don’t rub it in!
Seriously, I wish I knew what the triggers are.
Holly, Thank you for the input; I used to drink water with lemon all day long (but not for any health reason, just because I like the way it tastes). Perhaps I should go back to that–couldn’t hurt. I hope your husband mends soon.
Emily, I drug my feet in taking the milk thistle this late because I kept thinking, oh, well, 12 weeks is just around the corner…
Rachael, do tell the secret…
Comment by Amy Scott (May 1, 2007 @ 3:30 pm )
No deep thoughts to add, but I did want to say that I have wondered too. I have had various experiences and thought I had it down with the last three to the co-sleeping, nursing at night, no pacifier, nurse on demand until our sixth arrived. However, she was sleeping mostly through the night from the beginning (that changed but my cycles still came, although not regularly), and my cycle returned at 6 weeks like my first two, but almost thirteen months later I am still not pregnant again. I have never gone over the year mark before. So I wonder if we are done, are we in for a longer span between children because I only have three more years til I hit the big four-o. Not sure, but time will tell.
I do have to agree that I truly believe the Lord has a different plan for each of our families. It is all a part of the sanctifying/faith process. And I also have to admit to wishing and hoping to be pregnant again. Don’t take it for granted that you will always be having babies every year or every other year because one day you won’t be and you will be wishing for just one more. Just something to think about.
Blessings,
Theresa
Comment by Theresa (May 1, 2007 @ 8:14 pm )
One more thing I am back to mention.
Dr. Leo Galland has a book called Super-Immunity for Kids. (Amazon, of course.) In it, he deals with prenatal nutrition. He breaks apart the prenatal vitamin for pregnant moms…in other words, he doesn’t give them one or two huge vitamins. He gives them the individual ones. He gives super doses of Vit. K to moms who suffer from severe hyperemesis grav. for a brief time. I have done this before - and it has helped tremendously…because our bodies absorb various vitamins/minerals better at different times of day - or in tandem - or alone. It just works more effectively than a multi-vitamin.
If you would like to borrow my book - I will send it to you with the pages marked. I wouldn’t try to tell you it would work, or that it would be a cure-all…but it would at least give you some information and would spare you from digging it up on your own. Even if it doesn’t help with this pregnancy - it could perhaps give you a better basis for understanding for future babies - if the Lord so blesses.
Love, Holly
Comment by Holly (May 1, 2007 @ 8:15 pm )
And I would NEVER recommend trying to guess which vitamins you need nor in what amount.
Particularly not Vit. K.
But this book has it all broken down for you.
Comment by Holly (May 1, 2007 @ 8:16 pm )
Forgot to say that I *think* that my pulling late nighters after she has gone to sleep or the days when I do not nap with her, may have affected my cycle this time. But is sure is a guessing game, isn’t it?
Oh and it looks like all the male readers are pretty scarce these days…..
Blessings,
Theresa
Comment by Theresa (May 1, 2007 @ 8:19 pm )
I have never done the cleanse but have been taking milk thistle for about 4 years–still get ill when pg tho. I do think it helps my milk supply and my cycles stay away for about 18-19 months now. I think the vitamin breakage thing sounds good. I’d try anything next time –if God so blesses.
Comment by Lyn (May 2, 2007 @ 4:09 pm )
I read what you wrote about liver function and I thought of the Liver Cleansing Diet by Sandra Cabot an Australian dietician. I have tried this diet (it’s more of a liver cleansing treatment than a diet) and it seemed quite healthy although perhaps not for the long-term. Maybe you could google it or I can provide more details of what to eat/not eat if you are interested. Lisa
Comment by Lisa (May 5, 2007 @ 10:38 pm )
I’ve found this discussion rather interesting, since liver function has been a major focus for me lately, in using natural means to try to get over my latest CFIDS relapse.
I would highly encourage milk thistle - no matter when during the pregnancy. But make sure that it’s a supplement that is a combined sylimarian(sp?) extract (the active component) and whole herb. Also, dosage can be a factor - I wouldn’t worry about upping it. (Oh, forgot to mention that I’m also an RN with experience in post-partum, prenatal.)
I’ve not seen anyone mention beets? Beets are known to be *highly* effective for liver health. If you can’t stomach eating beets, there is a crystallized beet juice product on the market that I’m currently using (beets are expensive this time of year in CO.) I also make beet kvas when I can afford it and drink a glass a day. Lacto-fermented products like kvas, kefir, etc. can actually be very helpful with stomach discomforts as well.
I also haven’t seen any mention of high vitamin cod liver oil? Contrary to conventional medicine’s advice, if you make sure your source is clear of toxins (and there are sources, mostly online) and the vitamins are naturally occurring - NOT synthetic added back in - this is one of the healthiest things you can do for yourself (and baby) during and after pregnancy.
I would *highly* recommend the Weston A Price Foundation website (www.westonaprice.org)if anyone wanted to get more information on natural/whole foods women’s health/children’s health. There is a lot of information on there relating to these topics - and particularly the benefits of cod liver oil.
One last note on emesis/hyper-emesis. You all are the experts on pregnancies here, so you may know this already, but just in case: I know from experience that anything with lemon or ginger can be helpful - and avoid plain water like the plague!! In my experience, *most* health care practitioners don’t know that plain water will actually make you more nauseous/cause vomiting if already nauseous.
I had a client who was actually able to control her hyper-emesis by taking an early morning dose of plain ole’ pepto bismal. Now, I can’t say if I recommend that or not (altho’ her MD said it was ok). I just know it worked for her!
Blessings!
Comment by Cheryl (May 6, 2007 @ 4:15 am )
Great post! I am linking to it.
I have heard that a mild cleanse (lemon juice 2x/day) is fine while breastfeeding. I would think - though I don’t know for sure - that the older the baby, the more able *their* livers are to handle a small amount of toxins.
Hadn’t read your blog for a while and missed the announcement. Congratulations! I’m sure you are familiar with the HER Foundation. Preventing HG would be best, but hope you are getting meds if you need them.
Comment by The Mommy Blawger (May 7, 2007 @ 4:16 pm )
My curiosity is peaked!!
Liver enzymes– up down and all around. The liver is the great filter of the body. Different readings point us in the direction of many bodily malfunctions… as if we are not getting the symptoms on the outside… swelling, itching, neasea, BP up, mom’s bodies respond, babies sometimes (with Gods help- hopefully not) compromised. We know the signs, we know the symptoms, we know the reading and we try and help. But have we looked at what is the cause of this all.
If as studies show, as high as 95% of all people have some sort of food intolerance, why are we not looking at what is fueling these systems. We as women are honored with pregnancy and have a way of seeing life in its finest. If we have been fueling ourselves with foods that we are sensitive to pregnancy will be strained. We have a long time been pointed in the direction of “high protein diet” for toxemia, but what if we are previously strugglling to integrate into our systems gluten, dairy, soy, etc.
Maybe in addition to cleansing our liver, we should be looking at why it is taxed in the first place - (aside from the usual chem. buildup by toxins, additives, …)
‘ya might be putting in the best gas, but if it aint right for you vechile, it dont work”
Even with hyperemesis, you are in a holy state.
Comment by cc (May 18, 2007 @ 2:42 am )
Too late for me to try it this time- just hit week twenty and thought I had finished with the vomiting….until yesterday. Definetly food for thought though.
Comment by Susanna (May 18, 2007 @ 4:54 am )
Just wanted to comment on the liver thing. I started taking Dandelion (a liver cleanser) about a week ago for morning sickness and it has helped a lot. M/S kicked in at 5 weeks, big time! One day I was fine the next I felt horrible. The nausea was bad, but that flu-like feeling was worse, and unexpected. After a week of that - and after trying everything which included ginger, B6, red raspberry, wristbands, etc. - I started doing research online and came across the theory that m/s is caused by the liver getting “backed up” from being overworked with all the hormones flowing through your body. It made sense to me, and explained the toxic feeling I was having. About 3 hours after taking 2 capsules, the flu feeling lifted a bit as well as some of the nausea. Now a week later (taking 6 a day spaced out) I’m doing much better. Still have strong food aversions and some nausea, but no longer feel like I’m dying. Just wanted to share my story.
Comment by Ann (May 21, 2007 @ 1:12 pm )
Would those of you taking Milk Thistle and Dandelion please share where you are buying it/what brand/what form/what dose, etc.? Thanks.
Comment by The Mommy Blawger (May 21, 2007 @ 4:07 pm )
Mommy Blawger,
I’m taking Country Life Milk Thistle.
Comment by Amy Scott (May 23, 2007 @ 2:19 pm )
One note on the milk thistle: according to “Naturally Healthy Pregnancy” (Shonda Parker), it should be standardized to contain at least 70-80% sylmarin - it should be listed on the “supplement facts.”
Other than that, I don’t think the brand is overly important. I started out with the Vitamin Shoppe brand and then found it at Costco online (TruNature softgels). 2-3 a day has worked for me (200 mg each).
Hope this helps. I haven’t tried the Dandelion.
Comment by emily (May 24, 2007 @ 3:42 am )
omg this is a fantastic sight i am desperatly researching hyperemesis to avoid it in my next pregnancy as i suffered HORRIBLY in my last. and this advice seems very helpful. im going to try the milk thislte dandelions and cleanse away. thanks all!
Comment by elle (September 27, 2008 @ 8:39 pm )