Cops, OBs, and whippersnappers
Monday, Mar 31, 2008
In yesterday’s sermon, my husband told the story about his speeding ticket. He was returning home from our farm earlier this month, taking a route through Chattanooga, TN. The speed limit suddenly changed to 35 mph, and he didn’t see it. A cop was waiting in the area to pull him over.
While my husband waited for his $58 speeding ticket to be written, the police officer gave him a lecture on safe driving. He listened politely while thinking, I’ve been driving longer than you’ve been alive… It’s funny, of course, to be lectured by a 20-year-old kid with a gun on his waist.
A similar situation happened to me at the hospital. It’s actually happened twice, but I will just tell about the most recent example. I’d just delivered my sixth baby. I was cozy in my bed and nursing her. A lactation consultant came in to see if I need any advice. I thanked her for her work—yea for women who help other women with this sometimes difficult process—but declined any help. I mentioned that I was an experienced nursing mother and that the topic is one I’m well-read on. “I’m all good,” I said, “but thank you so much for your offer. Oh, and hey, do you want some hospital Jell-O?”
She wouldn’t leave. She insisted on knowing my schedule. She wanted to know about the baby’s diapers. She wanted to see the latch. I obliged to be friendly, and I even peppered my answers with some weird breastfeeding trivia.
She came back the next day and the next. She also called me after I arrived home. (I was not flagged for anything; this is really just a case of standard operating procedure.) After all these exchanges, I finally asked the whippersnapper if she was a mother herself. She was not.
In the two cases I mentioned above, the lecturer had some knowledge but lacked experience. It made the medicine more difficult to swallow, even if it happened to be the right prescription. The flip side is also true.
For instance, I’ve happened upon mega-moms with tons of nursing experience. Breastfeeding came easy for them, and so they haven’t needed to research the subject in any great depth. Young moms have asked for advice and have been given the wrong answer. The thinking is, “Hey, it worked for me. It will work for you.” You know, eat some oatmeal and call me in the morning.
I’m not saying you need to be a retired rocket scientist before you teach third grade science. In fact, let me digress here and tell you about my maternity care. I’ve had 3 different male obstetricians, 1 female obstetrician, 2 Certified Nurse Midwives, and 1 lay midwife. Without a doubt, each of the male obstetricians had the best bedside manner. Men obviously do not have any personal experience in these matters. (I know you will email me to tell me my experience is exceptional. Ready. Go!) The male obstetricians were the most competent and caring. Plus, they all appreciated my very good jokes, and this is important. There were no snippy snide comments from the men and also no drama. Trust me, I definitely prefer a female for my care (um, hello), but I haven’t had great luck with that.
So there’s my standard disclaimer that there are exceptions. My observation for all it’s worth is this: wisdom is a combination of experience and knowledge. Experience is good. Knowledge is good. But when you combine the two, ba-da-bing, it’s a very good thing.
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So this is like me saying “wow, I bet a cracked nipple really hurts. I’m so sorry for you”. Sympathizing, but not really ‘getting it’ having never had one.
Un.til.now.
thankfully after a week and a half of thinking my insides were coming out a very tiny delicate part of my body, I understand.
Comforting those with the comfort we’ve received? hmmm…something like that?
Comment by Barbara (March 31, 2008 @ 10:16 am )
hee hee … this made me giggle. My experience has been very different. Instead, everyone ignored me because they thought I knew exactly what I was doing. After all, I had already had three babies. But I felt like I had forgotten a lot!
Although, I remember my ob getting really upset because our income level with our first child was super low and so we were tagged by a particular group as needy. My ob barely knew me, but she so ranted, “Why don’t they spend their time helping people who NEED it?” hee hee … I remember when the lady from said group came to check up on us, she was apparently shocked to find it clean and to find everyone clothed and to have all the right answers to all the questions. She didn’t really know how to respond.
It so makes me want to go volunteer somewhere to help some people who haven’t had the blessing to know certain things.
Comment by brooke (March 31, 2008 @ 10:25 am )
Your Blog has become my favourite Amy! I feel like I have found a kindred spirit.
Thanks for the challenges of your “I used to think…” post. I have been seeing a whole bunch of ways that God has been working in my stubborn heart to soften me into a teachable spirit. One of the comments from your readers said “perfectionists are being driven not led”. For me that was, (not an “Ah-ha moment” label. Too Oprah for me)… it was, well…”ba-da-bing”.
Have a great day!
Comment by Jen Pinch (March 31, 2008 @ 10:28 am )
Wow! I wish I had that kind of help when I had my baby. The lactation nurse pretty much told me that if it didn’t come naturally to me, a bottle would be just fine. I would have felt better if she had shown more interest in helping me do what I wanted to do. As for the male OB, you’re right when you said most people haven’t had that experience.
Comment by Heather (March 31, 2008 @ 10:36 am )
Hi Amy!
I just gave birth to my 7th child and I, too, have experienced better bedside manners from my male OB Dr.s—-and I have even had 2 CNM and 1 female OB Dr.
Trust me, I’d prefer a female too—-and I don’t tell any jokes whether funny or not either!
Comment by Jennifer Partin (March 31, 2008 @ 11:12 am )
Ditto on the male OB; I’ve always experienced compassion from the several male doctors I’ve had. The female one - not so much.
Comment by CR (March 31, 2008 @ 11:40 am )
I have a wonderful male ob - after 30 years delivering babies he’s very knowledgeable and he’s still very impressed with the wonder of it all.
It is harder to swallow advice from someone who has no or little experience. Such as my unmarried, 18 year old sister doling out the discipline advice or my twice divorced sil on how to have a happy marriage. Sigh.
Comment by Shannon Miller (March 31, 2008 @ 11:47 am )
I worked with a missionary couple with no children who spent their entire career in Japan. After about 10 years after I came home, I got back in touch with them. My very good friend who knew lots about living in Japan and teaching Japanese children in school then proceeded to instruct me on how to raise, teach, and discipline my very American, homeschooled children. Believe me, there is a big difference. Oh, she threw in a bunch of advice on our family size as well; we are expecting #6 in May. Oh well, she gets a “A” for effort.
Comment by Another Heather (March 31, 2008 @ 12:07 pm )
“I’ve been _____ longer than you’ve been alive…”
Oh. My. Let me count the times… Have you been listening to me when I’m on my soap box?
I have learned the hard way that I if don’t have the experience, I say NOTHING. What does Proverbs say about a fool looks wise when he says NOTHING?? Works for me. Pity it’s not Wednesday.
Excellent as ususal Amy!
Comment by Janel (March 31, 2008 @ 12:27 pm )
Wonderful post! I couldn’t agree more. I’ve been enjoying your blog very much.
Comment by Daisy (March 31, 2008 @ 12:43 pm )
Amy,
I enjoyed this blurb of yours. For my first I was not helped at all with the nursing, until I went to my pediatricain & she got my son to latch on. I was so thankful that I had chosen a woman for my baby since she just grabbed me & showed me how to feed my baby. Sure would not have liked having a man with that one. When I had #4 this past Nov. (he was in the NICU for 4 wks), one night when visiting the nurse asked if I was going to breastfeed & then asked if I needed help. When I told him that it was my fourth child he said never mind & walked away saying that I was fine. As for the drs. all the women I had were really great. I haven’t had a male to compare & that’s ok too. My favorite was the dr. for #3. When she came to see me that night (baby came in the morning), she thanked me for the best time she ever had doing a c-section. You may as well joke around while your laying on the cold slab waiting to meet your little one. Have a great day!
Comment by April Bauer (March 31, 2008 @ 1:22 pm )
Just for the record, as a birth doula and mom of four, I totally agree with your generalized assessment: male medical caregivers do a much better job at compassion surrounding birth. “Oh, just suck it up,” is the general vibe you get from so many female OB’s (midwives much less so).
Breastfeeding is THE worst area for these mismatches and misunderstandings! Until you’ve had flaming breasts, body-wracking chills and huge fevers from mastitis multiple times, cracked, bleeding nipples, and a child who needs therapy to learn to cooridinate his tongue to nurse effectively– all on about 3 hours of sleep per day– you haven’t lived! I realize how lame and pathetic it sounds to the uninitiated when I say that establishing nursing with my first-born has been one of the greatest achievements of my life, but I stand by my claim.
Comment by Marian (March 31, 2008 @ 1:26 pm )
Too many stories to recount on this situation! But I would say that the age of the ‘instructor’ has little to do with their competence to instruct. There have been plenty of men and women of older generations who
try to ‘help’ out both my husband and I - only to prove with every sentence how little they actually know.
I have learned to just smile and nod, and thank God for holding my tongue!
Comment by Kim from Canada (March 31, 2008 @ 1:27 pm )
I draw the line at male lactation consultants.
It’s different, I don’t know why, it just is.
Why do I not worry about being taken down for saying that (a man shouldn’t do “x”) but if I say a woman shouldn’t do “x”, then all the stops come out?
Thinking more, women have fought their way into the military and now are allowed on the front lines alongside men. Do you want a GIRL covering your back if you’re a man? How come the women are allowed to fight to be like men but men do not fight (um, generally) to be like women? Have you ever met a male lactation consultant? Do any boys play softball? (But girls are allowed to play Little League….) Furthermore, I’d argue that we are a feminized culture, but yet more women want to be like men than vice versa. Doesn’t the quest to be like men validate the belief that men are inherently better?
—–
Marian, I sympathize with what you said. It took me 8 full weeks to latch on my first baby without curling my toes and crying.
Comment by Amy Scott (March 31, 2008 @ 2:11 pm )
Thanks for giving the male OBs in the world some credit. It seems really fashionable, especially among Christian mothers lately, to bash them. My male OB is awesome! He has always been very compassionate with me and husband starting when our first pregnancy which ended in miscarriage. I never want anyone else to deliver my babies. One of the only reasons I dread moving one day.
Comment by Jenny (March 31, 2008 @ 2:12 pm )
I was privy to a long conversation/debate about this. Some women think it is sinful to use a male doctor, invoking all kinds of Bible verses to support the idea.
Some even went down the hypothetical road that if they were dying from hemmorhaging that they’d rather die than have a male ER doctor work on them. I’m not sure what to do what that. Sure, there’s the rare quack, but in general, it is all just business. Nobody is *looking* at you.
Nobody brought up the fact that these same women believe that it is sinful for a woman to work outside the home, so I’m not sure how they reconcile the two non-negotiables. (How does a female OB not work outside the home?) I generally find it fruitless to point out the logic, so I don’t bother.
Now, my first OB doctor won a George Clooney look alike contest on our Orlando radio station, and so yeah, I was totally shy.
Comment by Amy Scott (March 31, 2008 @ 2:24 pm )
Ouch! All these nursing stories are making my, um… well, you know, hurt! I have a few ‘battle scars’ in that area as well!
I have had nothing but fabulous men OBs except for one. I am a big sissy when it comes to pain and I love my epidurals like nobody else! So, when I was in labor with my third child, my OB told me I wouldn’t have the baby until 3pm. I explained to him that my babies tend to come fast. He patted me on the knee (oh, how I hate when they pat you on the knee) and told me he’d see me after lunch. My son was born at 11:15am… WITHOUT my epidural!! My doctor MISSED THE BIRTH! He strolled into the room and said to my sweaty, half-dead body, “Well, women have been having babies in the fields for hundreds of years without a doctor so it’s not a big deal. I was at lunch.” If I could have gotten up off that bed… let’s just say it wouldn’t have been pretty.
My husband, whose knuckles I had pulverized during the delivery, quipped back to the doctor, “I assume that means we don’t have to pay you then.”
Needless to say, that was my first and last baby with that doctor!
Comment by Lady Why (March 31, 2008 @ 2:32 pm )
…that’s what *I’m* sayin’!!!
Comment by Andrea (March 31, 2008 @ 2:39 pm )
Well, my husband IS an ob/gyn, so he will be happy when I tell him that so many women have had positive experiences with male doctors! (And we have 7 kids!)
Thanks for the great post!
Laura
Comment by Laura (March 31, 2008 @ 2:48 pm )
i have heard that if you actually take their services (the lactation consultants), you get a bill. maybe that’s why she was so insistent that you let her help you!
Comment by lindsay (March 31, 2008 @ 3:20 pm )
Good call, Lindsay. My itemized bill was obscure, so it’s hard to say. Nothing is free in the hospital, right down to the $4 tissues.
Comment by Amy Scott (March 31, 2008 @ 3:26 pm )
I in my youth often find myself on the “whippersnapper” side of this, with not much knowledge about or experience in ANYTHING! I find that I save myself a lot of grief by assuming that the other person DOES know something that I don’t so that at least I can listen with an open mind. Someday when I’m old, wise and experienced I’ll have my fun dishing it out, but for now I mostly listen.
Comment by Amy from SD (March 31, 2008 @ 3:59 pm )
I enjoy your blog… great post! And I’ve had the same nursing experiences as well. I felt like it was a little unnecessary to receive countless pamphlets, answer so many questions, and fill out all those feeding schedule charts for these young single nurses, though I’ve had to remind myself that it is probably hospital procedure. And the calls after too! “Yes, everything is fine, and no, I don’t need anything unless you are calling to babysit for an hour!”
Comment by Pam (March 31, 2008 @ 4:04 pm )
I realize your subject is really “Knowledge + Experience = Real Good” but, of course, we all want to share our nursing experiences. I knew breastfeeding was going to be a solitary journey for me so I studied for it while I was pregnant with the excellent book “The Nursing Mother’s Companion.” My hospital didn’t have a lactation consultant. I fumbled around, trying to do as I’d read, and finally a nurse found a nurse in the ER who had breastfed her three children. She came to me in the middle of the night, encouraged me, showed me the best position for us, and assured me he could indeed breathe! I knew how to tell if he was latched on properly by looking at his lips and cheeks and listening to the sounds he made. Still, the night we got home it was such a relief to see him pull away and a tiny trickle of milk escape his mouth!
By the way, his pediatrician was MY pediatrician (and he was old when I was little!) and he didn’t believe in breastfeeding. He told me, “We start our babies on rice cereal at two weeks.” We respectfully agreed to disagree on that subject!
Anyway, my point is, it was impossible for the post-partum nurses to help me because they had never breastfed their babies. I thank God that one of them knew to find that nurse who had. I don’t remember her name but she’s one of my favorite people I’ve ever met!
Comment by Caroline (March 31, 2008 @ 4:08 pm )
So true, so true. Experience and Knowledge, yes!
My sister who is a pediatrician will be the first to tell you that she was a competent and caring doctor but didn’t become a really good pedicatrician until she had children herself.
It really is a balance of both, when I was trying to conceive (never successful) I had plenty of young mothers try to tell me “how” to get pregnant. Well, obviously they “knew” how because they’d done it but they didn’t really know that much about cycles and conception. They didn’t have half the knowledge I had after reading countless books and doctor visits.
I’d throw in age/maturity as well, especially in life matters. Living life says alot. I’d much rather get advice on marriage and children and Christianity from a couple 50 years old married 15 years with 3 kids than a couple 35 years old married the same with 3 kids.
Great post and comments.
Comment by Marie (March 31, 2008 @ 4:13 pm )
Great post, Amy. Always love your truth and humor mix. It’s wonderful. Thanks for sharing.
Comment by terry (March 31, 2008 @ 4:43 pm )
It just cracks me up(note sarcasm)when the LC’s are so wonderfully attentive to the WRONG moms!
Ugh! My mil is an LC and she knows when she’s not needed. I guess following procedure is good and wonderful and all, but for some reason the mom’s who really need the help get skipped more often than not.
I wonder…
Comment by Natalie (March 31, 2008 @ 6:50 pm )
I had three female OB’s tell me there was nothing wrong with me and that I just needed to “suck it up”. It was a male OB who diagnosed a lot of fertility issues, scheduled surgery and eventually delivered my beautiful baby girl. So I’m pretty sold on the whole male OB/GYN thing.
Interesting side note - Jack Newman is a male lactation consultant who wrote the book “The Ultimate Breastfeeding Book of Answers.” It was very helpful to me. I’m just sayin’
Comment by Coralie (March 31, 2008 @ 7:56 pm )
Funny, the only person who could help me figure out what to do about nursing with my first baby…was a male nurse. He was very nice and clear and matter of fact. Everyone else literally shrugged their shoulders and said that “you’ll figure it out” thing. We have a picture of him in our daughters baby book because we liked him so much. Weird, eh? I successfullly nursed her for a year and her three sisters that have followed (last one is currently 7 months old). I’m just sayin’…
Comment by Joanna (March 31, 2008 @ 8:59 pm )
Hey, good call on Dr. Jack Newman. I forgot about him; he has an excellent breastfeeding website. (No kidding.) I believe Lora told me about him last year, and I actually meant to write a letter to him regarding supply issues that didn’t respond to standard treatment. I believe I need a physician’s perspective, and I’ve had no luck with any OB. (I was thinking an endocrinologist might have a better guesstimate, but I’ve never talked with one on this.)
I stand corrected.
Comment by Amy Scott (March 31, 2008 @ 9:03 pm )
Here’s his website.
Comment by Amy Scott (March 31, 2008 @ 9:03 pm )
I just had our fifth baby earlier this month and the same thing happened with our lactation consultant. Actually, there were two and the first left me alone after I explained that my oldest child is five-and-a-half and I have been nursing non-stop (tandem or otherwise) since he was born. The second consultant actually came in and said, “I know you’re experienced, but let me just say what I need to say…” and proceeded on a ten minute recited speech clearly intended for first-time breastfeeders. I felt bad that she wasted her time.
Comment by Christa @ No End in Site (March 31, 2008 @ 9:06 pm )
Okay, I’m with you on the jokes. I want a doctor who laughs at my jokes!
Comment by Beth (March 31, 2008 @ 9:54 pm )
This last one came super fast with no epidural. My male OB cartoon-slid into the delivery room and started cracking jokes. Through clenched teeth, I mentioned that since I had no pain meds, I could lift my leg and kick his head.
He saved the rest of his jokes until I got back to the recovery room. Plus, my dear one was born with more hair than he has!
But he is great.
Sorry about Greg’s ticket. I do hope it was in Tennessee and not in Georgia. I’d hate to think our local law enforcement was staking out unsuspecting tourists in a speed trap.
Comment by MrsBurns (March 31, 2008 @ 10:34 pm )
I was never successful at breastfeeding and it’s one thing that kills me to this day. Our youngest is 8 months old. After her birth, my midwife offered to stay late and help me. But I told her to go home and I would wait for the LC. Big mistake. I got the “you’ll get it eventually” from her. So needless to say, another bottlefed baby for me. I have lots of horrible LC stories…even down to the one with filthy fingernails (her finger went in my baby’s mouth and it grossed me out!).
As for a male OB, I’ve never been brave enough to try one. But we do have a male CNM around here. He calls himself Mr. Midwife. I’ve never seen him, but he’s made a successful business for himself. Lots of women LOVE him.
I have had the good looking resident coming in to check my cervix and that freaks me out a bit. Especially when their 25 years old…lol.
Comment by Christina (March 31, 2008 @ 10:48 pm )
Thankfully I had a great experience with the lactation consultant at the hospital after my daughter was born. While she couldn’t figure out the problem (I had a great milk supply and baby had a great latch, but she wasn’t gaining weight), no one else could figure it out either so I can’t really blame her!! We also have some great public health nurses and lactation consultants that we can access anytime, and they’re full of knowledge (and when they don’t know the answer they send us to Jack Newman’s website)!
Interestingly, a friend of mine had a male lactation consultant when she gave birth in September - and he’s a committed Christian! His wife was a pediatrician and gave up her practice to stay home with their kids, and now he helps other moms breastfeed! I think the story is that they were so impressed with the LCs that his wife had that he wanted to be able to help in the same way.
And, you’re right, I have to disagree with the compassionate male OB angle. Mine barely spoke to me during pre-natal visits, didn’t ask any questions, looked annoyed when I asked questions, and ended up missing my daughter’s birth because he didn’t believe the nurse the three times she called him in. And so, because he was angry that my daughter was lying on my stomach when he entered the room, he was incredibly snippy to my husband and I. Needless to say, we’re trying a different OB with this pregnancy!!
Comment by Kari (April 1, 2008 @ 12:06 am )
Boy, oh boy, how many of us can relate to the “curling toes and crying” comment you made, Amy? Oh man, makes me want to cry just remembering it!
~~~~~~
I’ve been very blessed to have gracious, kind, God-fearing male OBs, as well.
Comment by Ruthanne (April 1, 2008 @ 12:24 am )
This was very insightful. Its true too. I have been on both sides. The trick is learning to have compassion, go slow enough to realize that you don’t always know it all, and to pay attention…sometimes the answer isn’t the same for everyone. Thanks Amy! I enjoyed reading this!
Comment by Jenileigh (April 1, 2008 @ 12:35 am )
It’s funny how irritated we often become with younger people trying to give us some unsolicited advice, when we probably were just as guilty of trying to shepherd our elders when we were younger. I know that I often gave my older sister advice on how to raise her children. I’m sure that she laughed at my self perceived wisdom many times. Now that I’m in my fifties and have raised six children of my own, I admire the kind way she treated me when I tried to advise her. Hopefully I will do the same when someone younger than me (and maybe wiser) gives me some unwanted help.
Comment by Mayre (April 1, 2008 @ 12:58 am )
The same male ob/gyn delivered all three of my children, and was absolutely wonderful. I remember telling him not to consider retirement until I no longer required his services. He is still practicing today and is 84 years old. Amazing man. He is also the one who told me that he had learnt to trust mother instinct, and to tell him immediately if ever I sensed something odd happening when I was pregnant.
I called his office one day saying that something was odd, and I wasn’t pregnant at the time. His secretary told me “he is a very busy man blah blah blah” so I put the phone down and called his daughter who is a friend of mine. She called her dad, He called me, and I was in his rooms half an hour later. I had had a miscariage. His secretary was fired the same day.
Male or female? It does not matter one bit. What matters is that you like them, you trust them, and that you are listened to when you need to ask questions.
Comment by Linds (April 1, 2008 @ 3:13 am )
I was one of those disgusting young mothers that had enough milk to supply a third world country and a baby that made it all seem easy. During my pregnancy I watched several friends struggle with inadequate (sp) supply, cracked nipples, and mastitis, and one friend that had a “tongue tied” baby. I was so grateful for my easy experience that I spent most of my time being worried that “oh, no, this is it, the bottom is falling out” it never did and my 11 year old is the joy of my life!
On the OB topic, I’ve had both terrific and awful for both men and women. Thankfully now I have a terrific lady dr.!!
Comment by Kelli C. (April 1, 2008 @ 8:22 am )
After the birth of my 7th, the nurses kept “strongly encouraging” me to attend the parenting class for all “new moms”. I kept explaining that I was an old mom and continued to decline. I’m guessing they needed me to go so they could mark it on their check list.
Comment by Smockity Frocks (April 1, 2008 @ 9:50 am )
curling toes and trying not to swear like a sailor…. 3 times in my nursing experience I have developed a weird sore –a cross between a pimple and a canker. Very humbling.
I’m not keen at all on males ob’s because the one I had with oldest intimated that the HG was all in my head. So I did a little brainwashing on myself and ended up back on IVs with #2 about 16 months later. My favorites are certified nurse midwives by far. I did try a female ob with #3 and she lied about not doing episiotomies. Wretched.
A nurse tried to tell me my latch was wrong with #5. After she left the room, my mom and I laughed and laughed.
Sorry I had a momys brain moment –of course it’s KY not TN!
Comment by Lyn (April 1, 2008 @ 12:16 pm )
I really like hospital deliveries. I know many think that is odd. I have had extreme emergency situations and have been so thankful that I was at a hospital… like a baby who needed multiple surgeries to keep him alive.
But, I also have to swallow my pride, when after six children they are still so nosey. Some haven’t been and some have said “your experienced at this” and left us alone.
But, at the last baby’s birth the hospital required me to watch a video about shaken baby syndrome. I said, nicely, NO! I would not shake my baby and I really don’t want to see something so depressing right now. There has also been the teenage helper who walked me to my car and checked my car seat before I left. I just don’t understand hospital policy, it seems like the same mentality as the public school system. They assume we don’t know what we are doing and they have to take charge!
Comment by m (April 1, 2008 @ 12:41 pm )
I have to write today. Just to say that I have the absolute best MALE OB/GYN ever. After having miscarriage after miscarriage I decided to look for a new DR. I called a number I found of a woman dr. When I called the receptionist said that the female dr was not available for awhile (she was pregnant!) but her husband was taking patients. I said Ok and never looked back. If anyone in the Amarillo area is looking for a good DR then Dr. Robert Carrasco is awesome. He has delivered 5 of my 6 children and never has he made me feel like I was stupid, as have some of my other drs. His wife is named Londa. She is quiet like me so it took longer to like her but now I enjoy visits with her too. Both of them are outstanding.
Also, I want to say that after having my fourth child the hospital I delivered at told me that I needed to attend the parenting class. I asked what did they teach and she said “bathing, diapering, etc”. I asked if it was mandatory because I really didn’t need to take it. I told her that if I didn’t have diapering, nursing and bathing down by the 4th baby then I am doing something wrong. Let me clarify that my first and second nursing experiences(nursing my 2nd and 3rd babies) were learning ones therefore I had quite a bit of experience. Not trying to bash anyone.
It is too bad that there has to be classes at all to help us along. If more women were Titus 2 women then we would have a church full of ladies giving their wisdom in a variety of subjects. I am learning that not enough of these ladies exist!
Sorry to steal your comments Amy. Now time to go listen to some Journey
Comment by Mrs. Damian Garcia (April 1, 2008 @ 1:29 pm )
lol!
I am considering interviewing our city’s only male midwife next time I’m pregnant. I love the other midwife practice, but both their male and female backup OB’s were horrible to me. And I do mean horrible.
I’m still a whippersnapper myself, but I am starting to get those odd moments when I realize an authority figure is younger than me. It’s weird to see uniformed soldiers and sailors around and realize that they are in all probability several years my junior! And I suppose by the next baby, i could indeed run into a doctor who’s younger than me!
Comment by Margaret (April 1, 2008 @ 1:43 pm )
I actually got a big dose of respect with the birth of my twins. Our neonatologist specifically visited my hospital room just to pepper us with questions like: “WOW! HOW DO YOU DO IT?” and “I AM SO IN AWE OF YOU!”
Nobody patronized me. Nobody questioned my mothering expertise. Except for this ONE nurse. But whatever.
Mostly we got heaping doses of praise and admiration. It felt pretty good, I’ll tell ya!
Comment by Elizabeth Esther (April 1, 2008 @ 2:06 pm )
Mrs. Garcia,
I bet we were at the same hospital being offered the same parenting classes! I delivered #7 in Amarillo!
Comment by Smockity Frocks (April 1, 2008 @ 4:57 pm )
I, too, have thought my male o.b. doctors were more compassionate and careful. My female doctors (except the last one…) were like,”buck up. We all do it.”
Comment by Holly (April 1, 2008 @ 8:21 pm )
This reminds me of my single friends who are super sure they know more about marriage and parenting than I do. After all, they’ve been watching Oprah for years. Never mind that she’s single, and childless.
Comment by Carletta (April 1, 2008 @ 11:25 pm )
Smockity Frocks - probably was! I love BSA though - great labor and delivery nurses. With my last baby a night nurse came in and rocked my baby for about 30 minutes or so and just chatted with me about having babies!
It’s always fun when you have been a patient often enough that they nurses start to recognize you
Comment by Mrs. Damian Garcia (April 2, 2008 @ 12:14 am )
yep, give me a wise grandma over the so called professional anyday! unless of course the so called professional was trained by a wise grandma
blessings, Penny Raine
http://www.pennyraine.com/blog
Comment by Penny Raine (April 2, 2008 @ 8:33 am )
The best OB I have had was with the birth of my stillborn son four years ago. I hemorrhaged afterwards and he quickly took action to save my life. This doctor, an older gentleman and father of ten, was the most gentle and compassionate doctor I have ever met. He spent time talking with my husband and I after my surgery and even walked with us out of the hospital to make sure we made it to the car safely. It was like having an old fashioned country doctor who genuinely cared for his patients.
I have had very nice female OB’s as well, but no one compares to this wonderful doctor.
Comment by WindsweptPlains (April 2, 2008 @ 12:55 pm )
I have to confess, this post really bugged me. The very wisest of people I know are always willing to listen to others, always willing to hear others talk, because they just might learn something new.
My midwife had 12 children of her own, has delivered over 500 babies, but still reads, still asks questions, still listens to others, just in case they have something new to say, something she could discover from them.
To give you the flip side, when I lost my baby, I was thankful for the doctors who stopped to listen to my concerns and my history. I didn’t tell them anything new. I was a very typical patient with pre-eclampsia. They could have recited my signs and symptoms to me. But they didn’t, they asked me, and listened to what I had to say, just incase there was something different.
It can be hard to learn new things if we assume that there is nothing more to be learned. It can be easy to dismiss the reminder of an officer younger than us, when we have been driving longer than he has been alive. But, if we are speeding, even accidentally, we need the reminder to pay attention to our surroundings. The ways of God are so complex, and the working of my body is so extraordinary that I don’t think I could ever memorize everything. Sometimes just listening to someone can give me a different perspective.
Listening to others doesn’t mean that we have to accept what they say as Gospel, but we should not only pretend to be courteous and listen, but we should listen, and accept that everyone can learn something.
Just my 0.02cents.
Comment by Mrs. Spit (April 2, 2008 @ 1:46 pm )
Mrs. Spit,
There is a saying that every man is your teacher. I agree with this wholeheartedly. The wise person will listen and heed good correction no matter who it comes from.
That’s my position, albeit communicated poorly from my post. “Whippersnapper” sounds condescending, so I see how you can assume my motive here. It was a poor choice of words.
My point was, again, that experience coupled with knowledge is a really great thing to strive for. If I want to teach others about gardening, I should a) have a garden and b) read about it. One or the other by itself leaves you with gaps. I think I muddied it with examples and exceptions until it no longer resembled what I wanted it to.
You said, “It can be hard to learn new things if we assume that there is nothing more to be learned.” When I reiterated the example of my husband getting a ticket, he wasn’t smug. He was completely humbled, as he was guilty as charged! I mentioned it because of the irony and humor of the situation.
Comment by Amy Scott (April 2, 2008 @ 2:13 pm )
LOL, Carletta (#50). How about the marriage therapist who has been divorced a couple times?
As for Oprah, I’ve quit watching her. Every single episode is a sales pitch from book promotions, product “plugging”, or hailing her New Age guru-of-the-moment. Blech. I question any “expert” who is getting a $$ kick-back for promoting a product.
Comment by Elizabeth Esther (April 2, 2008 @ 2:30 pm )
I agree people can gain great wisdom and from listening to others. There is another flip side, that sometimes people really need to show respect to others and not be so quick to give out unsolicited advice, especially to their elders. I guess I come from an old fashioned family.
I don’t think anyone here says they wouldn’t heed good correction. However, genuine correction is one thing, but being nosy or disrespectful is another. I would like it if a trainer at the gym lets me know I’m using a machine incorrectly or another mom tells me about a parenting tip she’s using or the young sales guy educates me on my cell phone. I don’t like it if my 22 year old SIL tries to tell me the perfect way to do everything. Or as some women said if I told the nursse that I have experience with 4,5,6, children and don’t need any help and they still insist on showing me how to breastfeed. That’s disrespectful. Of course Amy’s example was as she said funny and ironic. Sometimes we do just smile and nod.
Comment by Marie (April 2, 2008 @ 2:56 pm )
Aha, Got it.
I have to confess, when I went looking for a counsellor after Gabe’s birth and death, I wanted someone who had at least been pregnant. I didn’t think that they needed to have lost a baby to be able to empathize, but I wasn’t sure how much help some 22 year old woman with no life experience was going to be. I can understand that someone telling you how to do something when you’ve done it 6 times would be irritating. I find it frustrating when every specialist I see explains what pre-eclampsia is. I *know* exactly what it is. We can move past the definition now.
thanks for your response, I appreciated your perspective.
Comment by Mrs. Spit (April 2, 2008 @ 5:57 pm )
I have to chime in here too with my last hospital birthing experience and the incredible arrogance that *some* medical professionals can display …
The hospital pediatrician was “concerned” because my milk hadn’t come in — the SECOND DAY after giving birth. She fairly insisted that I be fitted for one of those artificial bottle/nurser deals.
No matter that this was my fourth breastfed child.
I must admit that I did laugh out loud in front of her … does anyone’s milk come in before the second day?
Soon after that the doctor/intern (read: whippersnapper
) on duty decided that I needed intravenous antibiotics for my high fever the night before. When I calmly explained that I had had no such fever and would be receiving no such antibiotics, he threatened not to release me and tried to convince me that I was putting my life in danger - and by extension, the life of my daughter.
Turns out, he read my chart wrong.
I was frightened of hospitals before … let’s just say I’m terrified now.
Comment by emily (April 2, 2008 @ 6:29 pm )
Okay, Amy, you know I would have to weigh in on this one!
I love your comment about your George Clooney look-alike OB. It reminds me of a skit I saw many years ago on Saturday Night Live (I watched SNL before I became a Good Christian Woman and I now set no wicked thing before my eyes, thank you). Anyway, Mel Gibson was guest starring and the skit was called “Mel Gibson - Dream Gynecologist”. My own husband is a doctor and a bodybuilder (but he isn’t OB/Gyn - he is an E.R. doc).
As far as male docs vs. female, since my husband and I are both docs I see both sides. I have been told by many patients that I am the first doctor who ever listened to them, who didn’t have an attitude, who actually explained to them what was wrong, etc. I have had lots of patients say that they were so glad to see a woman doctor. In every E.R. where I have worked, I have been the only female E.R. doc on staff. I personally have an aversion to male doctors (except of course my husband!). I know how many of them talk in the doctor’s lounge and I don’t like it.
I love your point in the comments section about women who will only see a female doc, yet they are against women working outside the home. Yep, those two are definitely not compatible. I now stay at home full time, and when I worked the E.R. my husband and I worked opposite E.R. shifts so that one of us was always home with our kids. No daycare, no nannies, no babysitters. When one of us went off shift and the other came on, the kids came to the hospital with us for shift change. I am puzzled as to why many Christian homeschoolers are dead-set against girls going to college. Um, how do they think female docs become docs or female nurses become nurses? And these same people who are against girls going to college probably wonder why their twenty-something year old daughters are still single and living at home! I met my husband in college, and I can say with certainty that there are good Christian men who attend college. They aren’t ALL heathens. Just stay away from the fraternities. Anyway, just my rambling two cents.
Comment by Valerie (April 2, 2008 @ 11:47 pm )
I agree with Valerie. My girls are still little, but I do wonder about college. I have met many good Christian men in a secular college, my sister met her husband, a friend introduced me to my husband because she had a college class with him…….I’m not saying God can’t bring single girls together with good husbands without college, I’m just saying that often He does use college. We won’t even talk about the potential match making available at a Christian college.
I don’t think I have a real problem with women training for careers. It is a decision that needs to be made in light of God’s direction like any other. I do, however, think Christian young people need to submit to the protection of their fathers and families while getting that training–again those arrangements need to be made based on God’s leading and not on some dogmatic black and white line that someone invented.
I may change my mind on all of this and put it in the “I used to think” file. We’ll see.
Comment by Another Heather (April 3, 2008 @ 2:08 pm )
Thank you, Another Heather. That is a good point that girls should still be under the protection of their fathers, even while in college. I lived at home with my parents while attending college (I commuted 30 miles each way) and only moved out of my father’s house when I got married (which was one month before med school started). I met my husband at a public university, and he is a wonderful Christian man. I shudder to think that if I had not gone to college I would have never met him. I trained for a career before I really understood God’s plan for women. It was never preached in my church that women should be keepers at home, and my mother worked outside the home, so I thought that was how things worked. The Lord changed my heart, but I still do not have a problem with college for girls.
Comment by Valerie (April 3, 2008 @ 8:31 pm )
Great story. I have grown to dislike the hospital
experience after having too many experiences with nurses and doctors.
Comment by kari (April 7, 2008 @ 8:41 pm )
congratulations on you 6th baby! I just had my 6th and this is the first time I had one at home. So much better with a midwife than a doctor and at home instead of the hospital.
Comment by kari (April 7, 2008 @ 8:43 pm )
Ok, so where was that lactation consultant when I needed her? When my daughter was born (my first baby), the nurse at the desk took it upon herself to tell the lactation consultant that I didn’t need her, and no one thought to ask me. (In my opinion, this is an unbelievable thing to do to a first-time mother.) By the time I found out about this, she had gone home, and since it was a holiday weekend, she wasn’t coming back. We did eventually get it sorted out, with the help of a lactation consultant from a different hospital.
And BTW, by ob/gyn is male too, and I think he’s the best!
Comment by Heidi (April 11, 2008 @ 1:11 am )
Regarding girls and college (or boys and college for that matter)… I would highly recommend a cd from http://www.visionforum.com called Making Wise Decisions about College and Life After Home School.
Comment by Nickey (April 22, 2008 @ 1:06 pm )