The subprime mess and the regular guy
Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008
There is a saying that money makes the world go ‘round, but being Creationists, we know in fact that it is God who makes things spin. Yet, money still has a lot to do with a lot of things a lot of the time. (Houston, I need an editor.) The Bible talks about money more than it does heaven. This isn’t because money is more important than heaven, but because such an insignificant, temporal thing can keep us from an earth-shattering, eternal thing. C. S. Lewis once said, “Prosperity knits a man to the world. He feels that he is ‘finding his place in it,’ while it is really finding its place in him.”
That said, people always get funny when you talk about money. Since the Bible talks freely about it, I think we should too. The Bible also talks about certain things in the Song of Solomon, but really, I think the money part is different. I enjoy finance and real estate, particularly, but saying so is like saying I like anchovies on my pizza. It’s uncool, boring, and a bit on the weird side. People look at you different when they know you eat anchovies. (I don’t like anchovies for the record.)
Subprime Soapbox
From the perspective of being a real estate junkie, I am following this subprime mess with great interest. From the perspective of having my life savings tied up in the equity of four houses right now, I’m following this subprime mess with heart palpitations on steroids. Think Tin Man after he met the wizard. If you follow my sideblog, you already know I think a government bailout is immoral and wrong. It punishes savers, renters, homeowners with equity, and those who invested conservatively among others, while rewarding those who lied, cheated, and/or took a gamble. I don’t usually do rants on my blog.
We live in Florida and have a great credit score, even though that great part was optional two years ago. We qualified for all the liar loans as well as the legitimate ones. While prices doubled and tripled all around us, we kept saying, “No, because what if…” The problem with a government bailout besides its unconstitutionality and its effect on the dollar, is that the public will have no reason to behave morally in the future when immorality receives compensation. It isn’t just an economic issue but a moral one. Let the chips fall. I don’t usually do rants on my blog.
I recently read about banks cutting checks in the amount of a few thousand bucks to borrowers facing foreclosure. The borrowers are already in default, living on another person’s dime for several months, in some cases, years (!) due to the backlog. Yet, banks are paying borrowers a huge check in exchange for not stripping the house, selling off the fixtures, and trashing it before they leave. They’re paying them not to behave immorally, and apparently, a lot of people need that cash incentive to do the right thing. I don’t usually do rants on my blog.
The program is called “Cash for Keys.” The basic premise is that it is cheaper to pay someone who already owes you money even more money just to not cause you an even greater loss. Does that make sense? It is the same thing that happens when McDonald’s or Wal-Mart settles out of court for a ridiculous sum of money for an even more ridiculous, frivolous lawsuit just because that’s the way it works. I always thought they should stick it to these greedy guts who spill hot coffee on themselves, but that was before it happened to us.
We paid off the guy, who was holding our seven rental units hostage, just to make him go away. We essentially gave him a huge sum of money just to give us back keys that we already owned. Cash For Keys, baby. You have to know that burns me up, but I understand more than ever how the world spins. It’s complicated and not always pretty. I’m just thankful that it’s –probably, hopefully– over. We are back to being regular landlords, as opposed to leasing them to someone who is subleasing them.
Moving Plans
Our plans for moving have changed. When we first began trying to think outside of the box in order to leave the rat race (60+ hour work weeks with traveling on top of it), we came up with dozens of options to make a go at a different kind of life. We were going to rehab houses. We were going to buy a deli in the mall food court. We were going to do all sorts of crazy things. When Greg landed a work-from-anywhere job eighteen months ago, I thought we had that piece of the puzzle figured out. This was great until that job began requiring a great deal of travel. (This is in addition to the rocket job at the Cape.) We’re currently trying to figure out our best options.
At the moment, we think the most prudent course is to stay in the area for a little longer to build up a better financial cushion. Most of our losses are unrealized gains, as we weren’t planning on our primary house equity dropping 50% in two years. We used conservative estimates in our planning, but not that conservative. It’s not just the people who are upside down on their houses that are affected, but the influx of foreclosures and rundown properties runs down the values for regular folks too. (Incidentally, our taxes were raised when our values rose, but when they plummeted, our taxes stayed the same. Heh.) We could move to the farm next month when our house is finished and be fine, but it’d require Greg to keep the high-travel job. If we stay here, he could travel less and have more control over his schedule. The goal has always been keeping our family together, not a farm fantasy. Yee-ouch.
Our plans change by the minute and by the disaster, and we can’t say for sure what will happen. The whole thing is fluid.
A Final Aside
Since something is always happening, I have to mention I got my oldest son’s arm put in a cast this morning. He played six baseball games last week, all the while with a broken wrist. The kid loves baseball. He’s suiting up for tomorrow night’s game, but this time he’ll be shouting plays from the bench. Just call him, Bat Boy.
I think that’s it for now.
57 Comments
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Hope your boy is OK
He’ll heal fast. I read the article about the mortgage bailout on your side bar a few weeks back, and I did contact my representatives promptly. My husband and I are trying to buy a house in the fall/winter, but who knows. I feel you with “the whole thing is fluid” comment!
Comment by Sarah (April 16, 2008 @ 11:49 pm )
Ouch, Amy, to your payout to the subleaser.
Thanks for sharing the outcome and the downturn of your plans. Times like these makes it very good that we believe in a sovereign God, doesn’t it? You and Greg are still being wise to stick to your committment to keep the family together and have him home more. That is far better than money and farming.
We had grandiose plans too. Sell our house make some cash from the sale by moving to an area with cheaper housing, hopefully inabling us to practice more gardening etc. Maybe even get some land.
God had other plans: the housing market crash and unemployment. No buyers for our home and no job. It has been an interesting 2008.
On the upside, we did welcome #7 to our family in February - Noah David. He has been a demanding little fellow, but very much loved by all.
Another downside though is I have finally experienced being a sleepless mama on top of the tired. I know, incredible that this is a first for the sleeplessness, but it is. There is always a first time and now I can now empathize.
Blessings,
Theresa
wife, homeschooling mother to 7 here, 3 there
Comment by Theresa (April 17, 2008 @ 12:48 am )
Oh, man. It’s a good thing you’re flexible. I guess if you weren’t, all of this stretching would make you so.
I’m glad your real estate dilemma is improved, if not ideal. Thanks for the update. Good to hear from you!
Comment by Jeana (April 17, 2008 @ 1:39 am )
I have been enjoying your blog for a long while and I’m finally leaving a comment!
A willingness to face reality is a rare thing.
http://tarnya.wordpress.com/2008/04/02/debt-crisis/
You might also be interested in http://www.mises.org : go to the media files and subject “cycles”, I have been visiting there for a while and receiving an education in economics that I would never have got at school: now I understand the business cycle a little better! I listen to the lectures while I nurse my little one.
We were caught in 1998 (we live in New Zealand) when we bought our first home, only to find 1 or 2 years later that it had dropped 20% - our entire deposit gone: 4 years of savings and living frugally. We learned that house prices do go down. But one would need to go back a long way in history to see 50% drops.
Regards
Tarnya
Mum to 6 boys and 2 girls
Comment by Tarnya Burge (April 17, 2008 @ 4:46 am )
Nothing to add. Just want to say I agree and good post. Oh, and sorry about your injured Bat Boy.
Comment by terry (April 17, 2008 @ 7:03 am )
Poor Bat Boy!! You know, if you’re going to call him that, he really needs a cape … and a can of shark repellent, too.
I agree with you on the subprime thing. We’ve been very fortunate, as we’re near on of the metros (Austin, TX) that’s still growing, market-wise, and hasn’t had the bottom fall out like many other places in the country. But we’re very thankful that we weren’t planning on moving for another few years, at least, because it would be pretty difficult to sell our house, in the location where we live.
(Theresa, congrats!!!!!)
~Brea
Comment by Brea in Texas (April 17, 2008 @ 7:24 am )
Well, I think your rant was quite controlled, Amy. You held back! Great restraint on your part. And even though you had to pay Cash for your OWN KEYS, it’s good that you are rid of that fellow. I assume he’s on the rocket, heading for space?
Sorry about the Bat Boy’s injury. Did he complain at all about the pain in his wrist, or did he just soldier on, determined to get through what he had to do?
I assume the latter. He sounds like a tough dude.
I need an editor, too, by the way, who will tell me not to start so many sentences with the same word, and will tell me to stop beginning sentences with conjunctions. But I won’t listen to him, anyway, because I write the way I talk. So there.
Love,
Janet
Comment by Janet (April 17, 2008 @ 7:47 am )
That’s sad about your boy’s arm, but what a trooper! Six games with a broken wrist?! Wow.
Comment by Kristina (April 17, 2008 @ 7:48 am )
Oh, wow.
Thanks for the rant.
Comment by Andrea@Flourishing Mother (April 17, 2008 @ 7:52 am )
I have nothing to add, just wanted you to know that I agree, and it doesn’t make me popular in Realty circles right now.
Comment by Coralie (April 17, 2008 @ 8:36 am )
One doesn’t have to be a Creationist to know that God is the prime mover behind all things temporal!
Good luck with the real estate dealings - your life is way more complicated than mine, that’s for sure.
Comment by suburbancorrespondent (April 17, 2008 @ 8:38 am )
Very true! I think that goes a lot of times for parental and familial bailouts as well. I am wondering what you think about that. Am I thinking right or being unmerciful?
That was one of the most gracious and well said blog posts I have read in quite a while.
Comment by Jenny (April 17, 2008 @ 8:50 am )
Don’t even get me started on people wanting “something for nothing” as the old Dire Straights song goes. My parents worked long and hard hours to build a very successful business. They were able to retire early and move to the country and now they are being punished because a former business partner made a really foolish move and sold thier share to an unscrupulous business person. Ugh! The whole thing just makes my blood boil.
Of course when stuff like this happens I just have to “Be Still and know that He is God.” God is in control and I am not. Lately that’s been my mantra.
Comment by Jen K. (April 17, 2008 @ 8:52 am )
Finally, someone is saying what my husband and I have been saying! We live in the Tampa area and have 4 kids and we’re still living in an apartment because we thought the housing market was insane. Do you know a mortgage company wanted to loan us $450,000! Our mortgage would have been about 4/5 my husband’s salary. It makes us mad that we were patient and waited until it was wise to even try to buy a house and now “they” want to stick us with the bill (more taxes) because people don’t want to take responsibility for their foolish decisions. I could go on and on and on but I’ll try to restrain myself. See me shaking my fist at…”them.”
Comment by Joanna (April 17, 2008 @ 9:14 am )
I am sorry to hear about oldest son’s wrist - he will be sorely missed playing in tonight’s game. I can’t believe he played 6 games with it broken though - ooooouch! Poor thing, I hope he heals quickly and will be back out on the field soonest.
We thankfully sold the old house and bought our new house right before the wild crazy run up five years ago. I am also a conservative when it comes to money, so we stayed with the very uncool at the time 30 year fixed rate loan. How very thankful that we were not tempted to take the easy road then, but looked more for the long term stability. I am in complete agreement with your assessment of the government and banks bailing out the unwise/greedy/etc, but I don’t usually do rants in blog comments…
I do applaud your decision to revise your plans to keep your family together more - from that, good things will come in due time.
Comment by Carla (April 17, 2008 @ 9:21 am )
[...] Subprime and the little, err, humble guy. [...]
Pingback by Pseudo-Polymath » Blog Archive » Thursday Highlights (April 17, 2008 @ 9:29 am )
I am a Christian who registers Green and backs Obama. And I say Amen and Amen to your comments. Immorality and greed should be left alone to reap the rewards of their behavior.
Comment by Rebecca (April 17, 2008 @ 9:49 am )
We’ll miss you in the sticks, but I think you are making a wise decision for right now. Keeping the family together is the main thing. I speak from experience. I found an old pay stub from 2001. We are currently (after a bunch of raises from the company) still only making 2/3 what we were 7 years ago. And are having the 5th child since then. BUT we are together, and that is what counts.
We’ll keep the house warmed, and pray things even out so you can get here when the timing is right!
Comment by petersonclan (April 17, 2008 @ 9:53 am )
I forgot to say that the picture isn’t a misc. rocket picture, but it’s from the launch three days ago.
We figured it was just bruised all this time. I mean, how can he hit like that with it broken, right? There were tears in his eyes, but he knew that Coach would pull him if he showed any weakness, so he denied that it hurt. It was their tournament for the State Champs. They came in second.
He pitched for our Little League on Monday night. In the fourth inning, the batter hit it back at him (same spot on his wrist) and he fell to the ground. He’s in the dugout crying with ice on it, swollen. But then he still gets up to bat. Crazy kid. People don’t always believe me when I tell them that he loves baseball. He’s always ready for practice and games several hours beforehand, just twiddling his thumbs and pestering me to load up the kids so we can be real early.
By the way, the awesome pitching picture on the post below is courtesy of Carla Steinmetz (comment #15). She is the glue of our Little League though I’m not sure everyone knows it.
I think that’s something people take on a case-by-case basis. It’s certainly not unconstitutional.
I think families and the church should help out one another, but at some point, people need to be allowed to fall if their predicament is the result of foolishness. Of course, this brings all sorts of accusations like “greedy” and “stingy” if you have that sort of family…
Comment by Amy Scott (April 17, 2008 @ 10:10 am )
Wow, I’m am so sorry for McGregor. That sounds like it really hurt. I bet Momma feels a bit proud of how her son “quitted himself like a man”, though
. It is good to hear from you again, I figured things must have been busy lately.
Thanks for the rants. We agree, too.
Comment by Another Heather (April 17, 2008 @ 10:45 am )
Wow, what a boy you have. Hope it’s healing well.
The situation with your leaser would make my blood boil. My husband and I almost got into rental units a few years ago and got scared and instead have focused on his business and the thankfully the payoff has been good. We often wonder about taking proceeds and getting into the real estate market but probably not. We’re very fortunate to live in the DFW area where home values are below the national and still growing. Four years ago we paid probably 1/2 for our home what it would cost on the coasts and now it’s worth 15% more. I couldn’t fathom loosing 50% value.
I am so against the govt. bailing out those that should be bailing themselves out. That’s the problem with so many in this country they expect govt. to fix everything for them and take no responsibility for themselves or reliance on God. It’s a gimme, gimmme, gimme mentality.
Comment by Marie (April 17, 2008 @ 10:55 am )
Amy-
I know what you mean about baseball. When my brother was a kid he played for Altamonte Little League. Once during pregame warm-ups he was hit in the face with a baseball bat by his coach. (a complete accident) His mouth swelled up to the size a baseball, but he still caught the entire game, and then my parents took him to the ER!
As for the mortgage mess, I can’t even read about it anymore, makes my blood boil. I am sorry you have had the troubles you have had… for once in my life I am thankful that we have lived on military bases most of my married life.
Remember Proverbs 16:9 The mind of man plans his way,
But the LORD directs his steps…
It will all work out in God’s timing.
Toni
Comment by The Happy Housewife (April 17, 2008 @ 11:40 am )
Petersons and all,
The delay most likely can be better measured in YEARS, not months.
Comment by Amy Scott (April 17, 2008 @ 11:54 am )
We have just sold our house so that we can be debt free just in case the economy gets much worse-my husband works in construction. I get insomnia fretting about it not closing (May 16th) for some reason. I’m sorry your dreams were put on hold and it must be hard to see God’s hand in all. I’m sure in a few years when you look back the picture will be much clearer, or not! You may just have to accept it on faith.
Comment by Tina (April 17, 2008 @ 12:52 pm )
Amy, I completely agree with you about government bailouts. All the subprime mess makes me pretty angry right now, because we’re one of the families who (like you) did it right. We qualified for a real loan, we’ve made every payment, and now with taxes high and values low we’re stuck here for the indeterminate future hoping that somehow our budget will hold up! It is highly frustrating watching our association struggle to pay the bills because defaulting homeowners aren’t paying dues, and watching our own home value plummet because there are three foreclosures next door and across from us. Sigh. And those people are pretty much going to just walk away from it all.
I should note, though, that in my area there have definitely been some predatory lending issues, and I feel sorry for some of the families who simply didn’t understand what they were signing. Researching a loan as a college graduate with good credit was hard enough. I can totally see how a blue collar worker without much education might fall victim to a bad lender.
Comment by Emily (April 17, 2008 @ 1:02 pm )
Amy, I am sorry that it won’t work out for you to move to your farm yet. I have been reading your blog for several years, and appreciated following, through your blog, your family’s path towards a simpler life. I admired what you and your husband were working towards. But, I have to say that I admire even more your commitment to having your husband and father at the center of your home life. You are committed to your family, and not a dream. It’s a good dream, but it may just not be the right time. Even if every earthly goal never materializes, we are still blessed to have the husbands and families we have! You continue to inspire me!
Comment by Dana (April 17, 2008 @ 1:25 pm )
Emily,
I’m kind of torn about what to do with victims of predator lenders. I suppose it doesn’t matter what I think because nobody will ask me. Even if we came up with a sensible solution, it’s still the fat cats who make the rules.
Thinking more. I bought stock in JetBlue after seeing a spot on it by 60 Minutes, and it is a large portion of my retirement. My retirement account is basically worth nothing now. (Thankfully, we diversify our other investments, and I can always count on social security. HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAA. That one’s free.) I still don’t think it’s anyone’s fault but my own. Nobody made me buy it and lose.
When I got tricked into buying a dishwasher that KitchenAid knew didn’t work, I didn’t expect taxpayers to help me out. I duked it out with KA. I got suckered, and I suffered the consequences.
Granted, a house is a thousand times bigger, and we should apply condolences liberally to those who didn’t understand, but I’m not sure I see the difference. In order to get the loans, people had to lie about their finances. To those who thought they could just refinance, well, yes, it stinks. However, I’m not sure we ought to outlaw buying oceanfront condos in Kansas, if you know what I mean.
To make new legislation without enforcing existing ones (i.e. 30 years for lying on an application plus some insane fine) is just like throwing more money at education and expecting the problem to be fixed. It’s stitching up your ear when your ankle is broken. As my husband likes to say, “Tell me one thing the government does well.”
Comment by Amy Scott (April 17, 2008 @ 2:11 pm )
To answer my last question….
Cash my fat tax check to the IRS in a very timely manner.
Comment by Amy Scott (April 17, 2008 @ 2:13 pm )
Why are broken wrists so hard for us mothers to diagnose? My daughter had one for a while too before I took her to the ER. Makes a mom feel lousy to know she didn’t realize her kid was in a bad way.
Fortunately, it healed quickly. She had the cast on for only about three weeks. Here’s hoping your little man heals quickly too.
Comment by Kelly Schaefer (April 17, 2008 @ 3:02 pm )
Amy, couldn’t agree with you more about all the reasons why the mortgage bailout is a bad idea - add to it the fact that the bailout may cost all the taxpayers billions of dollars…not sure how that will help the economy!
I’m sorry to hear that your plans for moving have had to be constantly changing, but at least you have some options. Hang in there!
Comment by Julie (April 17, 2008 @ 3:16 pm )
This whole mortgage thing has made me so grateful that God foiled our plans last summer . . .
We made an offer on our “dream house” the second day it was on the market. It was toward the upper end of what we could afford on a 15 year fixed mortgage, but we figured it would be worth it. Someone outbid us by offering MORE than the asking price that same day. We were disappointed, but God led us to a cute little house in a similar neighborhood and we paid a little more than half what the other house would have cost.
So now even if the market gets worse here (though it’s not terrible here right now) we should be able to manage the payments and have a cheaper house to sell which might attract more interest at the right time.
Comment by Amy from SD (April 17, 2008 @ 3:46 pm )
Maybe you could sue the coach for letting your son play with a broken wrist, and then you could claim damages. I mean isn’t it his fault that he didn’t fully examine him. I think he owes you guys money for that.
insert tongue in cheek here . . .
I loved your post. I loved your rant. You’re expressing what so many other people are feeling who are just trying to do the right thing in this life. Work hard, bask in His blessings, and show gratefulness. Ranting is fully called for in this situation. Thanks for your words!
Comment by girlwithmoxy (April 17, 2008 @ 4:38 pm )
Oh, Amy… I’m so sorry to hear of your delay in moving to the farm though I understand completely. We’ve been working on our farm dream for some time too and we recently realized that we will have to put it off due to our own falling equity. We haven’t gone as far as to purchase land yet but we were so close I could taste it! It is a bitter disappointment to me but I love our current house and if we live here forever, I will be content.
But, I really want some chickens!
Comment by Lady Why (April 17, 2008 @ 7:38 pm )
I’m sorry about your sons wrist! But wow, that is A LOT of baseball.
As to your rant, rant away! I’m glad I’m not the only one who feels that way. Grrr…
Comment by Marsha (April 18, 2008 @ 1:27 am )
Excellent post…rant on all you want.
So sorry about your son. I can’t imagine the pain he must have been in.
Comment by Robin in New Jersey (April 18, 2008 @ 8:15 am )
Having seen my husband only 3 days out of the last 11 weeks and still not sure when he’ll be home even just for weekends (tho it seems very soon), I guess it’s like that for us too. My husband is a good pipe welder and can make great money traveling. It often has me considering selling out completely and trying out RV life, but then what of braces and Civil Air Patrol, and friends and fellowship? I don’t know. I think our kids would mutiny. So I’m still hoping that nearby big construction job starts up soon…..
Comment by Lyn (April 18, 2008 @ 11:18 am )
Amy…know that the Judge of all will make all things right. Though in the meantime, it would be nice if the government would stick it to the right people! I hope your star pitcher feels better soon. I’m sure it kills him not to be playing! Was it that dreaded baseball camp that broke your poor baby’s wrist?
Comment by Lisa (April 18, 2008 @ 3:30 pm )
Lisa,
He broke it on the swingset at church almost two weeks ago.
Lyn,
You might remember Greg’s 7 month business trip in California. I think that was right around the time that you and me (or is it “I”?) met. We hauled the whole family across the country (on our own dime) and crammed into a very small 2 bedroom apartment in a not-so-great location. It was incredibly stressful, and he wasn’t around much anyway. He was gone 60-70 hours a week, and then to make things worse, he traveled back HOME one week a month. So there I am in California with a houseful of kids, no friends or support, and no washing machine while Greg is stretching out in Florida.
If I had to do it again, I wouldn’t. Your own mileage may vary, but that’s my hindsight take. I think you chose the right thing, even if it is hard. There are some things, as crazy as it may seem, that would be harder. I think an RV would be just that.
Comment by Amy Scott (April 18, 2008 @ 3:43 pm )
I’m so sorry all this has happened to you. It’s something else when the laws protect the bad guy.
Just out of interest (and obviously, things are different here in Australia), wouldn’t now be the time to purchase more property? While the market is down? We have a very strong economy here in the west, and the housing market is still very strong, though gradually prices are on the decrease. My husband and I would like to buy our first home, and they are willing to throw great big sums of money at us, but if the interest rates continue to rise, we forsee an ugly future. We are waiting until we have more of a deposit together. Seriously, a starter home (say 3 by 1) in a reasonable suburb is upwards of $500K. That is a very conservative estimate. We are just going to wait and see.
Something I am thankful for is that the work culture here is not as frenetic as it seems to be for you guys in the US. My husband is an engineer, and does 37.5 hours per week, which is perfectly normal. If he works overtime, he gets paid for it.
Something he said that was interesting is that if you do over and above your ‘allotted’ hours, they then expect that of you. It is much harder to do less than it is to do more. I know his work ethic, though, and in those hours he gets a tremendous amount of work done. I love that he is home by five, usually. We, too, are working on things staying this way or getting better.
Valerie
Comment by Valerie (April 19, 2008 @ 1:32 am )
Amen Sister! Seriously it just boils my blood! We have been blessed to live in a community that has not seen foreclosures, but considering we saw tons and tons after Enron collapsed we were able to watch and learn from others mistakes…big mistakes.
Comment by hm (April 19, 2008 @ 7:10 am )
Valerie, I suppose it depends on whether you believe the market is expected to continue falling. I think it will, and so renters are in a good position right now. I think vacant land and rural areas are another matter, however. They tend to be less effected than cities.
Comment by Amy Scott (April 20, 2008 @ 4:46 pm )
So sorry about your son’s wrist. There is a boy on my son’s team that broke his arm on a trampoline. He didn’t even get to start the season. Bummer.
Comment by Kelly (April 21, 2008 @ 1:10 pm )
It all stinks-I’ve a friend that had to move out of state (we are in Fl) because her hubby (a mortgage guy) couldn’t get steady work–had to go to the Carolina’s to get it. I’m totaly with you on the property tax issue too. We just voted on increasing homestead exemption-(well, I voted against it
but so many people didn’t read the fine print and just saw $$. Now we are stuck!! Oh well, nothing new under the sun!
Comment by Kelli C. (April 22, 2008 @ 6:22 am )
Oops,one more comment to Comment #40, My father had big Enron stock, he worked for them for over 30 years, retired and passed away. Everyone figured that my mom, a teacher’s aid) would be able to comfortably retire–not six months later the bottom dropped out, she lost stocks in the 6 digits, and will be working into her 70’s. Sorry for the ramble –haven’t been able to vent about the Enron thing for a long time
Comment by Kelli C. (April 22, 2008 @ 6:26 am )
Amy, there is always 2 sides to the story. You have yours, let me give you ours. We took the subprime loan 3 years ago. We live in the California Central Valley. It had the fastest real estate growth than anywhere. We moved here from Oregon just as it was going up. Home prices were literally going up 5, 10 thousand or more a MONTH!!We felt we needed to buy as soon as possible or we would never be able to in our lives, as we are planning on growing old here. The only way we qualified for a home was with a subprime loan. Did we buy big? NO! We have a 1660 sq.ft. starter home with 4 bedrooms, 2 baths, for 6 people. My husband works from home, so one of those bedrooms is his office. We live in a not so great part of town. WE did NOT lie at ALL on our application!! Not everyone who did this did!!!
We hoped we would be able to qualify for a conventional loan after 2 years, and have equity. Within 2 months of our buying, we had $19,000 equity. Then things started to go down. We have lost around $ 50,000 in our home value. We were unable to refinance due to the house value. We tried 3 different brokers and all of their options. When the company notified us that our payment was going up $1000, they told us there wasn’t anyone we could talk to about making arrangements that would work. One day on a talk show that was discussing this, they mentioned the dept. to ask for if you were going through this. It escapes me now, but I told my husband and this is what we did. We filled out an application to show that we could not make this higher payment. They approved it and gave us 2 more years at the reg. payment before it will go up again. In the mean time we had to make one payment of higher one, and it took us 3 months to catch up from it. We were willing to eat beans and rice and do whatever we could to not lose our home. Right now there is 12 foreclosures in our subdivision. They are run down.The neighborhood is detoriorating. IF I had time and energy I would mow the front lawns myself. They don’t even have for sale signs up.
What will we do in another year when our rates go up? We will try to refinance. If we can’t, and most likely will not be able to, we will try to make the payments for as long as we can. We are trying to simplify as much as possible right now to prepare for that time. IF we have to foreclose I will leave my house spotless, with everything intact. And it won’t be easy. It will be horribly humiliating, embarassing. We will feel like failures, and everyone will know, from our kids, neighbors, families and congregation. Would you like everyone to know about your biggest failure???
Not to mention the bad credit that will haunt us for years. And then, of course, is our standing before God.
I don’t expect any handouts, but I do think that it is fair to expect and hope that the banks will lower the amount of points they increase in your payment. How about 1-3%, not 5-10%? So, that people can actually handle it? I don’t feel like we were bamboozed into this loan but the risk was definately downplayed. We never imagined we were going to be in this situation. Our future is the most unsure than it has ever been. We are good, hardworking Christians. NOT liars!! It makes me sick to my stomach that your post reflects what people will think of us if we lose our home.
As Christians, we should show love, as God is love. And not judge so harshly.
I am sorry for people who are having to pay for the bad decisions of others, but remember it’s those that make those decisions that pay the most.
Sincerely,
Melanie
Comment by Melanie (April 23, 2008 @ 6:08 pm )
I definitely see both sides of the coin but on the other hand we have saved all our lives and have everything paid for including our home on half an acre. We are in Oregon so we are not in a cheap home area, albeit its cheaper then a lot of places in California. We have no mortgage and we’ve done it all on my husbands blue collar income. It does seem that of the governement bails people out now that those of us who did it right are left looking like the dummies.
Its like the old saying, “Give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach a man how to fish, he eats for a lifetime.” This bailout isnt going to help those that havent learned to fish.
Disclaimer( I realize there are certain unforseen underlying causes for people not being able to pay. I am speaking in general terms.)
Comment by mrs darling (April 23, 2008 @ 11:19 pm )
Interesting post Amy. I had never heard of Cash for Keys until 3 weeks ago. We were renting from a management company that was hired by an investor from CA. This “investor” quit paying his mortgage a few months after we moved in and the bank foreclosed. But throughout the foreclosure process we were still bound by our lease (or so we were told) so we continued to pay rent (of course) but we not able to just find a new home and put it all behind us. We had to wait 6 months, show the house to prospective buyers and hope we got enough notice to find a new home.
We were told by the mgmt co that once the bank officially got the house they would give us 30 days notice then we would be able to leave. So we got a call a few days after the auction by a rep from the bank offering us Cash for Keys. Of course my reaction was “WHAT?! You’re going to pay us money to do what we were going to do anyway?” Um okay. It certainly was a blessing as it helped with moving expenses. After reading your perspective, maybe we should’ve declined the money as a matter principle. Hmmm…we certainly did see it as God’s provision in this case though.
I had never heard of this program and certainly never thought of it from an individual landlord’s perspective. I thought it was just something that banks did. Extremely unfair that you had to pay someone to leave your property who was staying there illegally.
Anyway this very long comment makes up for all the times I read you and don’t comment.
Right? Thanks for your perspective, Amy.
Comment by Trena (April 23, 2008 @ 11:48 pm )
I would just like to make it clear that I do not feel that the government should bail us out. I do feel that they should make the mortgage companies do more on their part to work with the homeowners. We were fortunate to have one that did, yet they were not forthright in telling us of this extended program. How many people could have stayed in theirs homes if these companies would be more helpful? And the companies shouldn’t raise the payments so much. If they were more reasonable in their rate hikes then more people would be able to keep their homes. This is were the government at this point should step in to oversee this. There are many companies not working with the homeowners at all! I believe we are all accountable for our actions, educated or not, yet these corporations are also accountable for their dishonesty and greed.
Mrs.Darling, with all due respect, when you bought your home and how much you paid matters greatly in having no mortgage. Also, buying at the “right” time. We have been married 18 years and it has never been the time for us until we did buy this home, we felt sooo relieved at the time, thinking,”We did it in just the nick of time!!”. We lived all our lives in Oregon, our family is all there so I am familiar with the prices. One of the main reasons we moved here was because of the low cost of living, but when we got here the housing market was going crazy.
I don’t mean any disrespect, I love Amy’s blog, and will continue to read it, but after reading it today I felt strongly that the personal side should be heard. I was deeply saddened and hurt by the comments. Does it matter what I feel, not really, but when your friends or family loses their homes, their feelings will. And they will need love, not judgement.
Comment by Melanie (April 24, 2008 @ 1:38 am )
Melanie,
I’m sorry you are losing your home.
I’m not sure how my viewpoint was offensive…but I’m guessing that the term “liar loans” might have contributed to your frustration. I know that not every who took a subprime was a liar; it is just the slang term in standard use now, representing the majority of the loans, fair or not. One didn’t need to reasonably qualify.
Banks working things out with their borrowers seems to be in everybody’s interest. We know people who have lost their homes because the bank wouldn’t budge. (I do know up close the personal side.) The problem with banks being forthcoming with working things out –I’m thinking aloud here–is that everyone will be calling to ask for a lower fixed rate. Why would people work two jobs to pay their debts when you can just default, take your hardship to the bank, and get a lower rate? Everyone loses on a foreclosure, except the investor who picks it up for a steal; it’s complicated. Yet, I see the stampede banks are trying to avoid by being difficult to work with. People with 7% 30-year-fixed regular folks will be demanding 6%.
Here’s the thing. In my post, I was lamenting the bailout. I don’t see how we’re at odds if you don’t think taxpayers should pay for your losses. (Please pull a quote from my post. It would be easier for me to understand your annoyance with me.) I lost my entire retirement account, and nobody feels sorry for me. I put a lot more into it than $0 down, and I didn’t get shelter out of it. There is no help, no sympathy, no working things out. It’s gone.
I am still very sorry for your troubles. I hope your local Christian community will band together to help you and stand by you. It is the same thing I will hope for when I am old and broke due to bad investments for retirement. I think mercy is a good default position.
Comment by Amy Scott (April 24, 2008 @ 9:36 am )
Right! But instead they receive a huge pile of money from the taxpayers.
The thinking for bailing out Bear Sterns was to prevent economic “collapse,” but everything I’m reading is that the recession is inevitable and letting the market play itself out is best, even if it’s painful. House prices have to tumble, and no amount of government intervention is going to prevent it. Delay it, yes, but not prevent it.
Prosecuting criminal behavior–that’d be a new one for the government.
Think: illegal aliens, but that’s another can of worms that will just tick people off at me.
Comment by Amy Scott (April 24, 2008 @ 9:43 am )
Trena,
I don’t see anything wrong with accepting the payout from the bank. I think it’s ridiculous that they have to offer it (”have to” because good luck getting the courts to prosecute criminal behavior). But thinking it through, I can’t see how it is wrong to take what is being offered through a private business. Does anyone see something I’m missing, the nuances of that?
Comment by Amy Scott (April 24, 2008 @ 10:01 am )
It’s worse than that. We entered into a lease purchase with an individual who was subleasing out the apartments. He didn’t live there. So, he’s collecting rents on 7 apartments for 4 months WHILE WE PAY THE BILLS, and he refuses to pay us our agreed rent. And we’re not allowed to have the keys. The legal system is out of its mind.
Comment by Amy Scott (April 24, 2008 @ 10:07 am )
I don’t see what’s so offensive. It’s fairly obvious that lotsa folks got in over their heads. When it’s “too good to be true” it usually is just that. So many people took loans they couldn’t afford. When it says “adjustable” it means “adjustable.” Lenders are at fault, too, for not requiring income verification. For a couple years there, they were throwing loans at anything that breathed; to make a quick profit. Those mortgage brokers went out of business long ago. Besides, most of these loans were bundled up and sold to bigger companies, or overseas. Which is why if you got a loan through Main Street Bank, in a couple months you probably got a notice saying your loan was being sold to Countrywide.
It’s pretty ridiculous for the gov’t to step in, now. Like a bad cold, sometimes you just have to let it run it’s course.
Comment by Elizabeth Esther (April 24, 2008 @ 12:32 pm )
Yes, the term, “liar loan”, is extremely offensive to me because we filled out applications like anyone else and did it honestly. Actually, despite reading the paper, watching the nightly news and CNN regularly, that is the first time I have heard it. Let me tell you it is like a punch in the gut!! I guess I will have to get used to it, though. I really am not annoyed but more hurt by the post, and obviously it touched a nerve.
At this point we are not losing our house,(maybe just prolonging it?) And hope we will find a way to keep it. I really don’t want our Christian community to band together and stand by us because I just want to deal with this quietly and on our own. Ironically, this is the first I’ve even talked about it to anyone other than my husband.
I guess, like everyone else, I am trying to figure this all out. Seriously, when we first bought our home, and would see people on TV going through this, we never, EVER, thought that would be us. We thought we would refinance in 2 years and be building equity.
End of story.
For what’s it’s worth, you’ve got my sympathy for the loss of your retirement and what you’ve been through with your rentals. I can’t imagine that kind of loss and stress.
This world is extremely unjust, we see it all the time.
What’s important is the big picture of things, and really it all goes back to what’s the most important things in life- God and family. When we’ve got those right we can deal with the rest. I’m thankful our conditions here in America are nothing like in other countries where they’re fighting over food.
Comment by Melanie (April 24, 2008 @ 5:42 pm )
Melanie,
It would be helpful to me if you would quote the part that offended you. Google results 315,000 hits for the term Liar Loan (loans requiring little or no documentation), so I’m not understanding your point. I would like to make this right, but I just reread my post and can’t figure out how what I said applies to you. Thanks!
Comment by Amy Scott (April 24, 2008 @ 8:45 pm )
Amy,
You don’t need to do anything to make things right. I felt the post was judgemental and felt like you were calling people who have these loans liars. (ME)I am honest and we filled out all sorts of papers, provided documentation of bills and income to apply for our loan. I see most of your point, and understand why people are upset with these loans. I am not upset with you, was just hurt by the tone of the post and wanted to provide another side of story. That was the whole purpose of my comment. I never comment on other peoples blogs if they have different viewpoints than me
because I feel it’s their blog, they have the right to say what they want. I feel that my last comment explains more how I feel and don’t really have more to expand on.
I love your blog and usually agree with what you say, if I don’t I appreciate your point of view but this time it really hit a nerve. Honestly, I have no ill feelings for you and all is fine. Thank you for your concern.
Comment by Melanie (April 24, 2008 @ 11:24 pm )
I meant to say that I still appreciate your viewpoint even when I don’t agree with it.
Comment by Melanie (April 25, 2008 @ 1:25 am )