Why you might not want to do rentals: Tip #2
Tuesday, Apr 22, 2008
OK, if you ignored my first tip about buying rentals as an investment (which was, in a word, DON’T) and you are determined to make a go of it anyway, I will tell you what I know. This should be a short series. (This self-razzing is just par for the course.)
When we first visited the infamous $35,000 house, it was an eye-opener. Greg began his usual inspection once we decided we were really interested in this place. Now, we’ve sold some things over the years including a car on eBay where the guy backed it up two inches in the driveway and handed us a wad of cash (and we saw his description on the evening news with counterfeit money but we’d already deposited it), and so I know a little bit about what buyers do when they look at your house. But my husband is a different kind of buyer. (Too much downtime with New Yankee Workshop.) Most buyers don’t walk on the roof and crawl in the crawlspace and bang on the walls to find the studs, but most buyers are not my husband.
So, Greg is doing his thing on the roof and I am doing my thing, which is, to envision knocking out walls and adding a little paint here and there, and voila. It’s all so easy in my dreams; I’ve seen Extreme Makeover Home Edition, but my life is not like that. I proceed to get the dirt on all the tenants because that’s what I do best—make people confess weird things to me. As is our usual way, I look around and think up some more extravagant ideas, and Greg reminds me that you can’t knock down load-bearing walls all the while grumbling about money and money. It’s the way we work; it’s our system.
As it happened, two of the three tenants were home that day. The first tenant was a quiet woman with a rich uncle who paid her rent. If you are keeping notes, this is good because the rich uncle doesn’t blow his wad on Wild Turkey and give stories about dogs and homework. The second tenant was a little crazy—for real crazy, not in the slang sense—and we would learn a lot more about him later when he tried to kill the cops and our property manager. For real kill, not fake kill.
The third tenant was not at home, but upon entering, I saw that his stash of crack cocaine was. We would have our first eviction case upon closing, and since the place was trashed, our first major clean up job. No matter, though, because you can’t let these details derail you when you are on a mission. I barked at the kids to not wander off—no, get in the car right now—as I processed that this was the kind of job where a person might need to pack some heat. I’m so down with the drama. So much for “family business.” For some reason, the homeschooling folks have never asked us to pose for a cover. No matter, as this was going to be a launching pad for the rehabs and our ticket out of the big cooperation flying Greg all around the country. I was tired of answering the door as the FedEx man handed me tickets and travel information for the next day on a trip I didn’t know Greg was leaving for. I mean, what if we had, you know, something to do with our weekend? Hypothetically. It’s like 007 without the money, fame, or fun.
About right now if I didn’t give you ADD with that last paragraph, you’re wondering why we didn’t buy houses that attracted tenants with regular jobs with regular recreational activities and such. The reason was simple: over time, we were going to turn these units into higher end rentals. The kind where you don’t have to post “No Trespassing” signs outside. We’d put on brass fixtures, granite in the bathrooms and kitchens, and refinished hardwood throughout. I was so naïve.
We rehabbed one unit completely, hiring out the work to make it clean and new. And just like that, we were back at square one. It would’ve been easier to flush the money down the toilet, except that you never get a working toilet returned to you to flush it all down. Why buy a new, sleek refrigerator when you are guaranteed to have it broken in a couple months? In fact, every time a unit turns over, it is returned in unlivable condition. I think you can turn these over, but not without an incredible amount of detail management and taking an upfront loss for several years.
From our informal education on the streets, we learned quickly that landlords do not provide maintenance. There’s no money (or thanks) in it. The tenants turn over so often due to nonpayment that it’s really not in a landlord’s interest to spend money on a unit that isn’t making money. The exception would be long-standing tenants, but that’s pretty rare in this sort of market. Besides, the thinking goes, it’s next to impossible to please people who think they’re entitled to everything. Before, I thought these rich fat cats were exploiting the poor, but I see the other side somewhat differently now. It’s complicated. For our part, we felt a moral obligation to stay on top of repairs (and still do), and additionally, go a step beyond. This is what it means to live a God-centered life, and that’s what we were going to do.
Here is an example. An inherited tenant tells us the story of live termites on his walls, but when he brought it to the attention of the woman we just bought it from, the former landlady tells him, “Too bad. I have a baseball game to go to.” We love baseball too, but it’s criminal to walk away from that. We wanted to be a different kind of landlord. We fixed up his apartment and Greg is over there our first day of ownership putting on a screen door he said he wanted. We had no obligation to add a screen door, but we wanted to show him that things were different now. In return, he never pays a dime of rent and calls the county on us for a fuse box placement code violation the very first week we owned it. Thanks.
So, in our first month of owning rentals, our property manager almost gets killed (more on that later) and we receive a letter from the county telling us that our building is going to be condemned for this fuse box thing in 30 days. Oh, and all the rent got stolen. Can anybody say, “Refund please?” The day the We’re-Going-To-Shut-You-Down letter came in the mail was an Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day type of day. Greg is having night sweats by now anticipating having to pay for lodging for tenants who’ve been evicted from our condemned building that we’ve owned for a whole 14 minutes. (We did fix the fuse box, along with the 342 other repairs, but not before Greg lost 3 years off his life for the stress.) But it can only go up from here, right?
Greg tells me that my series should be called either Rentals for Dummies or Dummies for Rentals. Either way, my tip of the day is to avoid units that cost less than, say, 10 million apiece, unless you think flushing money on repairs is your idea of an exciting way to spend your time. The only other option is to ignore the repairs, but in our opinion, that isn’t an option at all.
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Y’know, rentals were something we were thinking about a few years back, but after talking to some people (with experiences not-quite-as-bad as yours!), we’ve definitely decided against it for the time being. Maybe somewhere down the line, when we know more? We’ll see. Thanks for posting this series … it’s really interesting! And did anything ever happen with the counterfeit money guy?
~Brea
Comment by Brea in Texas (April 22, 2008 @ 11:23 am )
We never saw him again.
Comment by Amy Scott (April 22, 2008 @ 12:02 pm )
After reading your blog and almost all the comments
for the last two years +, I would say you have described your role in life pretty accurately.
As an aside, my husband and I are enjoying this series on “how to lose money” quite a bit. We have had similar experiences in rental properties, but in, ahem, “mobile homes” that came parked on property we bought.
Brings a whole new meaning to the verse, “the heart is desperately wicked, who can know it?” And I’m so far just referring to the Christian tenants. How people can continue to come to a bible-preaching church and shake my hand while owing me hundreds of dollars that actually (not virtually, but actually) came out of my pocket and out of the mouths of my children is beyond my understanding.
Comment by MrsBurns (April 22, 2008 @ 12:04 pm )
That’s pretty scary to think about people not paying, even if they are christian and friends. Keep posting, I’m intereted to know if we should do this or not! I can never imagine a horrible tenant, because I always took care of whatever unit I was renting…when I rented apartments and townhomes.
Comment by Reagan (April 22, 2008 @ 12:08 pm )
We dipped out toes into the rental business with fixer upper in the “bad” part of town. After our first renter moved out my husband said he was done! We sold it for a $50,000 profit. I would like to try again but in a nice neat family friendly neighborhood, to people who actually have jobs.
Comment by Tina (April 22, 2008 @ 12:23 pm )
Oh, my. Not that I ever wanted to get in the rental business, but I now repent of ever thinking that it was only a matter of collecting rent checks and painting once in a while.
Comment by Staci at Writing and Living (April 22, 2008 @ 12:46 pm )
But the informercials make it sound so easy!!! lol….
Comment by Lisa (April 22, 2008 @ 3:00 pm )
I used to work in a rental department.
Don’t think it’s all that different when the houses rent for a thousand a month. They get trashed too. Boy, do I have stories…
Comment by connie (April 22, 2008 @ 3:12 pm )
Please keep telling your story!
Comment by Pam (April 22, 2008 @ 3:15 pm )
OK, I’m ready to run screaming from ever owning rental properties. I’m anxious just reading about it! I can only imagine poor Greg and that first ‘14 minutes’! Wow!
Comment by Lady Why (April 22, 2008 @ 3:16 pm )
Who knew all this behind-the-scenes drama was going on with your rentals? Hearing the details is like reading a gripping novel I can’t put down. I’m convinced to never own a rental. It sounds like a nightmare. It is in our fallen nature to struggle with caring for things we own. I guess the temptation for renters is to not care at all for things they (we) don’t own. Bad business.
Comment by Jennifer (April 22, 2008 @ 4:26 pm )
Is it okay to enjoy hearing about your painful experiences, if only because it is a salve to my own rental woes? I sit and read and nod my head and laugh and get sick to my stomach because I know it all to well. The broken appliances, the renters who demand anything and everything and then move out, the angry tenant who leaves a litter of dead puppies in the basement for you to find . . . I could go on and on.
Let’s just say that there is a reason I let my hubby handle this “business venture” of ours. I can’t handle the stress.
Comment by Donette (April 22, 2008 @ 5:03 pm )
This is so painful to read. I don’t know how you survived the stress.
Comment by suburbancorrespondent (April 22, 2008 @ 5:33 pm )
I’m just getting started, heh. Oh and by the way, for all the Baptists reading, Wild Turkey is a bourbon reference.
Comment by Amy Scott (April 22, 2008 @ 5:40 pm )
I dream about real estate every once in awhile. Thanks for waking me back up!
blessings, Penny Raine
http://www,pennyraine.com/blog
Comment by Penny Raine (April 22, 2008 @ 10:02 pm )
My husband and I have rented for the entire eight years of our marriage, houses and apartments. I am proud to say that we have always paid our rent on time and in full. And after a year in our first flat, our landlord brought us a box of chocolates as a thank you!! He was just thrilled that we stayed for so long and always paid the rent. Any time I called about anything he took care of it within about 24 hours, including installing security lights outside. While we lived in that place for two years we had at least four different neighbours on the other side.
Comment by Michele@Philoxenos (April 23, 2008 @ 12:59 am )
We’re on this road- two “high’ end rental houses with what I thought was aggravation - but you have enlightened me to count my blessings! Our current tenant isn’t paying but requested a pool card for the community pool - amazing. We may be about to embark on our first eviction. Yippee.
Sue
Comment by Sue (April 23, 2008 @ 10:07 am )
Since we have gotten married I have tried to convince my husband to either do rentals or buy houses still under contruction and resell them. We attempted to buy a house once and God promptly slammed that door so we never tried again. Hubby has never liked the rental idea and I told him yesterday that after reading your blog I would kiss his feet everyday for never agreeing to it.
I also sent a link to your blog to friends who are considering it. It may not change their mind but it will give them a better idea of what they are in for.
I have caught myself driving down the road thinking about your experience and others on here and being angry/frustrated for you; asking God where the fairness is in life.
Sometimes I think though that we have ideas of what we think would be good for us but God knows better. We may never find out here on earth why it wouldn’t be good for us, or the road is more difficult than for others. When I was growing up my mom thought about breeding Shih Tzus to help us financially. She had friends and it worked for them as an easy way to make money. We had 2 litters. First dog ate her puppies the day they were born and the second one got a uterine infection and passed it on to her puppies.
Comment by Colleen (April 23, 2008 @ 10:33 am )
All right, all right–I’m Baptist and I knew what Wild Turkey was!
Well, I knew it was a hard liquor, anyway!
Comment by Another Heather (April 23, 2008 @ 11:23 am )
please keep giving the rental tips. i live in an area where a lot of houses and mfr are used for rentals. Even though you say don’t, I still really want to do it. So keep writing to show me the reality and obstacles to try and avoid.
Comment by omo (April 23, 2008 @ 1:40 pm )
“for real kill”
exploiting the poor
stash of crack cocain
ate her puppies
This post will show up on a whole variety of searches.
I’m really enjoying this story. And by enjoying I mean often cringing and making that hissing noise when you inhale through clenched teach. What an experience!
I often look at people on the streets and think, “they are probably mostly just like me. They have some superficial differences, but deep down, we all want the same things. Not exactly like me, but mostly like me.” Then I read stories like the ones about your renters and realize that people really do run the gammut of desires and, uh, civility. When I thought about getting a rental I assumed that I would be renting to people “mostly like me” or at least like me when I first got married/got my first job/whatever. I don’t think I even considered the possibility of complete miscreants inhabiting my path to financial independence. In retrospect I would label that my unconscious incompetence. Tennants like yours would have wreaked havoc on my spreadsheets. And my bank account.
And I identify w/ Greg on the travel thing (and I’m sure my Amy identifies with you). I earned about 250K frequent flyer miles last year and will surpass that this year. Oh well, it’s expensive to fly our family of 6 anywhere so at least the plane tickets and the rental minivan are free. There’s some lemonade for ya.
Comment by Mike (April 23, 2008 @ 3:02 pm )
You have no idea how much I needed a good laugh today! God is good!
Comment by Autumn Beck (April 23, 2008 @ 3:20 pm )
Wow. I don’t know how you’ve survived it, either. I’m very sorry to hear of all that you’ve had to face.
Twelve years ago, my husband and I bought a duplex in my hometown that was in great shape. Our experience has been excellent; in fact, we have recommended it to several couples who were looking to buy their first home. We lived in one unit for the first year, moved to the other unit for the second year, then bought a house of our own, just down the road, and have continued to rent both units. We’re not making any money yet, but the house is paying for itself. It won’t be long before the monthly rent cheques are income for us - just about the time we start sending all these boys off to further their education. We never expected to make a lot of money at it, it was always intended to be a long-term thing. I guess we’ve been fortunate, not only for the fact that it hasn’t cost us anything, but that we’ve always had good tenants, a few long-term tenants, never had a unit trashed, and have never had anyone not pay us. I think a few cheques came 8 or 9 days late. Most of our tenants have paid by post-dated cheques, paying for two or three months at a time. We only had one guy that we didn’t like because he was obnoxious and had partying sons that we didn’t want around, but thankfully he only stayed two months. It would be worth noting that that was the only tenant that I interviewed alone, wanting to take some responsibility off my husband’s shoulders. I leave it all up to my dad and my husband now. They are both pretty good at reading people and reading between the lines. My dad has also worked in local corrections for 30 years. That experience is invaluable when interviewing prospective tenants.
I’m sure it helps that we live nearby and, being a rural area, if my dad doesn’t know whoever is wanting to rent from us, he knows someone who does.
Comment by Seven (April 23, 2008 @ 7:12 pm )
Seven, The key to your success was being local. It can work, and being nearby or having an excellent PM is key.
Mike, Greg downgraded from platenum to gold on the airlines (or something like that) and I’m all excited…
Comment by Amy Scott (April 24, 2008 @ 10:46 am )
I am 74 bought our first house 1979 in 2000 I had 20 but have sold half of them. I have some bad experiences but the houses we have now are paid for and they are the source of our income. I too have lots of experience and its all expensive.
I would like to write a book “The adventures of the languishing Landlord”
Listen to proverbs “Wise man has many counselors”
Comment by nmayfield (April 24, 2008 @ 2:46 pm )
[...] read some of Amy’s scary posts on owning properties, but feel that our situation is truly different for a number of [...]
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