The road to our farm, philosophically speaking
Wednesday, May 21, 2008
The house progress
I took a trip to the farm earlier this month. Usually Greg goes to check on the progress, but since he’d been travelling so much lately, it was decided that I should go instead. It was a four day trip, something I haven’t done since four children ago. One of the advantages with Greg’s work is that we earn frequent flyer miles and car rental incentives, so it is inexpensive for us to travel. I would normally say that that is the only advantage of traveling for work, but with the economy the way it is, I am just glad for the employment.
Even though our contractor was formerly Amish (now Mennonite), he’d never done an Amish-to-English conversion and so there was a lot of things everyone learned along the way. We don’t plan on needing this kind of information again, but I suppose it might prove helpful for someone one day. For example, one way to save a lot of drywall work is to run the electric along the bottom of the wall—threading it up to the receptacle spots–so that the patching doesn’t have to be done perfectly, as the baseboards will cover it. I am partial toward high baseboards, and so having a practical reason for them was helpful. They are plain, not fancy.
We hired a cabinet maker to do our kitchen, as it turned out to be more economical than using a retail store. He is behind on the counters and cabinets, but we still expect/hope the entire project to be finished in July. We bought the farm – I see the euphemism there – last August, so it looks like the rehab will end up as a one year project.
The neighbors
I met more neighbors on this trip. After asking around, I was led to a farm down the way to inquire about keeping our place bush hogged while we were away. They already knew who I was, so I didn’t even have to introduce myself. News travels fast, I’m learning, and so now it’s just easier to say, “Hey, we’re the folks who bought Jake’s place.” That is the shorthand for my farm address, birthplace, family status, and all the work that is going on at the farm. (They already know; no need to say it.) People tell me this country telephone is good and bad, but so far for us, it’s been good.
Our neighbors are fellow Floridian transplants that moved for similar reasons. So here we are in the same little town that we both picked because it was affordable and pretty. They used to own a gas station a mile from our house in Orlando, so life is funny that way. Our neighbors on the farm south of us are also from Florida, I hear. I met a realtor that weekend from Deland, Florida. I am noticing the pattern.
I spoke with my new neighbors for several hours. They are eager to help us avoid all the mistakes they made, but not nearly as eager as I am to learn. Greg tells me that I need to learn different manners – like not being in such a hurry all the time – but I’m not sure how much of that is my personality and how much if that is surviving with a large amount of preschoolers. Really, I don’t enjoy eating fast, talking fast, getting things done chop-chop, but with the past ten years of having babies in succession….well, you know.
There is an Amish schoolhouse that used to be part of our farm, but it got divided up during an auction last year. It is across our narrow road down by the river. I heard that a newlywed Amish couple is living there and farming, but I didn’t get to meet them. They plan to build a house soon. I followed their buggy home one night, but since it was late, I didn’t stop in. (Actually, I wasn’t following them, I just decided not to pass them.) We’ll meet soon enough.
John Piper’s comments that I wrestle with
I drove the back roads of our area, and it is beautiful. While enjoying the scenery, I was thinking about one conversation Greg and I had back in 2000. It was late and we were talking about where we’d like to be in 10 years. It never occurred to us that we could leave Orlando, as (1) that’s where we were both raised and (2) because because. Yet, our kids couldn’t play outside because of the traffic and crime, and we just felt restless. There were no sidewalks even if, let’s say, there weren’t gangs.
Right around this time, I heard John Piper – back before he became a celebrity pastor – publically criticize some men (not by name) who were being interviewed for the pastoral staff at his church. During the interview process, they asked if the area (downtown Minneapolis) was safe for their kids. Boy, he went off. He explained about how the Christian life wasn’t about “safe” but that the only safe spot in the world is in the center of God’s will. (I’m paraphrasing; if I use the phrase “God-saturated” or something, you might think I’m quoting, so I’ll stick to this generic version.) I agree with this position, but I’m not sure how to unpack it.
In some way, I think it’s OK to take risks for myself, but not necessarily for my children. And by that, I mean, calculated risks for the Gospel, not just stupid stuff. This idea impacted me in a big way, as you can see from my writing about it so many years later, and in some way, I feel the need to justify my decision to withdraw from the decay instead of raising my children among the moral cesspool. Sometimes. This doesn’t mean that I’m wavering or unsure, just that I’m always thinking about how our lives can be wasted. How many of our life decisions are based on preferences and not on earnestly desiring that God’s name look great? Not that there isn’t moral degeneration wherever you go and you’ll get away from sin by moving to the country. The counter-point to Piper’s position is what Rod Dreher, the Crunchy Con, often talks about with the Benedict Option. In a lot of ways, I think it’s a “both-and” instead of an “either-or” and it all depends on what you’re trying to do.
Everyone has different callings, but no matter what, decisions ought to be based on faith and not fear. (Romans 14:23) Each side (one side being in the world, the other side being not of it–even though we’re supposed to be both, we tend toward one side or the other)tends to claim the moral high ground, whether or not they found themselves there by default. In other words, I would think sanitized bragging rights belong moreso to someone who radically changed the course of their life, choosing the harder path, as we all usually just defend the position we find ourselves in, in order to justify our laziness or whatever. I’m just saying, as I’m guilty of it.
My current thinking is that it’s possible to raise children in the middle of popular culture, but definitely harder and not without significant risks. That’s my call as a parent for my own kids. With our situation, I began looking for ways to make this easier without having to stop having children. Again, this is where I felt sure of my calling, but all the other stuff seemed negotiable. I’m not saying we are 100% making the right decision, just that it was deliberate.
It’s OK to dream
It was during the late night conversation in 2000 that we looked at each other and basically said, “You know, I don’t hear God telling us to stay, so why don’t we follow our dream?” With babies coming every year, it made sense to us to take steps in another direction, out of the city. We needed a place that I didn’t have to lose my mind playing a helicopter parent. We could’ve made the concession to just stop having babies – don’t-you-know-what’s-causing-that —but in my heart, I felt that God did have that in His plans for us. We might have been foolish in the eyes of everyone, but I felt at peace with God.
We moved to the coast to be closer to Greg’s job. This was huge, as I said, because we’ve both lived in Orlando all along. He was commuting 2 hours, 15 minutes each day, and that’s time you can never get back. Once we settled into what is our home now, we began looking for alternative ways to make a living, pay off the house, and simplify. Again, one solution is to quit the stork’s visits, but living simple isn’t about sacrificing quality of life for the easiest way to live it. So, I came up with a new idea almost everyday (think: rentals), but none of them ever amounted to much (think: rentals). The way I saw it, we had two options. Either Greg could work more hours to make more money to pay for the things we needed and wanted, or we could reduce our needs and wants and need less money. We fiddled with spreadsheets constantly, and in 2005, I was ready to sell our house at the peak of the Florida housing bubble. The trouble was, Greg didn’t have a work-from-home job, so where would we go anyway? None of my entrepreneur ideas worked.
We were rescued from probable financial ruin with all my let’s-start-a-company talk when Greg landed a work-from-anywhere job after the market decline. Notice I used “work-from-anywhere” instead of “work-from-home.” My son asked last week, “Mom, how come Daddy got a work-from-home job but he doesn’t work from home?” Actually, all his emailing and phone calling at home is part of his job, but it does involve some travel.
A miscellaneous paragraph about my baby
I think I’ve gotten off-track, but I don’t know how to get back on. Apparently from my going on and on, you can tell that the baby is still sleeping. She is six-months-old and began crawling this week. This is an official Scott baby deviation, as all the Scott babies sit up at six months and crawl at seven months. I don’t know how this Scott baby got so far off track. I will have to research this.
It’s all good
Anyway, the drive. Yes, I was driving and wondering and thinking and praying and just being happy. We’ve talked about this for so long — the chickens, the berries, the creeks, the fresh milk, the flowers — and it is given to us to enjoy. But I know that it’s not nirvana. No matter where we’ve been – in the rented 2 bedroom California apartment, downtown Orlando, this pretty farm – we’ve always had Jesus. This is the reason the Christian has joy in poverty and in plenty.
A few things have changed for us, and so we’re considering an August moving date. How cool is that.
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It’s funny that you mention meeting a lot of Floridian transplants, because my parents about three years ago decided to move to NW Arkansas. No real rhyme or reason, they just saw things spiraling out of control in Orlando and decided enough was enough. My brothers are still school age and they wanted a better life. Anyway, they are currently in the process of renovating a house they bought and my mom constantly calls and says “Jen, I think the whole of Florida has moved up here!” It’s so funny to hear the same story told over and over again by these folks who just couldn’t take another minute of Florida.
Comment by Jen K. (May 21, 2008 @ 11:58 pm )
Amen. I can so relate. We left the proverbial “mission field” to put down roots in a rural community on a hobby farm. We felt it was the right choice, and we’ve never looked back, and we serve God with thanksgiving here, just as we did “there”. God bless you as you set off down this new, exciting, wonderful road.
Comment by Prairie Chick (May 22, 2008 @ 12:05 am )
Wow, August! Great! May the Lord’s will be done.
Always in a hurry with lots of babies and preschoolers… oh boy, ain’t that the truth.
: )
Love,
Ruthanne
Comment by Ruthanne (May 22, 2008 @ 12:35 am )
I am very happy for your family. There is such satisfaction to watching this story play out. It will be neat to see what blessings you uncover next.
Comment by April (May 22, 2008 @ 12:36 am )
It is WAY cool. [The August move-in date.]
How exciting!
I can’t wait to hear all about farm life with the Scotts.
~Stacy
Comment by Stacy (May 22, 2008 @ 12:54 am )
Fun to read about your journey. We’re kinda stuck halfway between the pastoral dream and rat race. I still travel, but have 8 acres of field to mow on the weekends and evening when I’m home. Our property is currently on the market because I’d prefer less land to maintain and more time to spend with my kids… (not that we’ve received any offers)
It’d be good to live the simple life, but being a yuppy wanna-be farmer with 8-10 days a month of travel time is not what I envisioned it to be. Still working on it up here in the Pacific Northwest.
Comment by Mike (May 22, 2008 @ 1:12 am )
Hi Amy!
I so appreciate your comments about begining to embark upon your dreams of rural living. I grew up on one and then lived in the city for what seemed at the time an eternity. When your heart’s desire is farm life and you live in the city God gets a really big opportunity to work in our lives and teach us that with Him we can be happy under any circumstance.
That said, we are joyful that our dream finally came true 1 1/2 years ago. It is just wonderful to step out the door and all of nature is at our feet.And the view of the sky, it’s hard to beat! My husband and I comment often that it is such a pleasure to be able to look at a whole slice of it from horizen to horizen. Beautiful.
Take Care,
Trixie
Comment by Trixie (May 22, 2008 @ 6:40 am )
Hi Amy,
We did the same type move 3 years ago. It is so peaceful and I love seeing my children outside without worrying about traffic. I will say it took a little adjustment, because I was so use to everything being so close, from our church to a loaf of bread. But now I make my bread and get up earlier on Sunday. God Bless You, and perhaps this move is the center of God’s will. Carolyn
Comment by Carolyn (May 22, 2008 @ 7:59 am )
Amy,
Thanks for sharing all about your experiences.
We too weigh our choices against Piper’s comments, and I also have thought of his comments about safety as well… when we moved overseas, people asked us that very thing about safety, and Piper’s words came to mind for me often.
We actually had people ask us IF we were going to bring the kids with us overseas. Um, yeah, we are.
Funny, when you’re in God’s will, it’s not about safety or not. For us, it has been about having the right attitude in the midst of the adventure so that we can rightly communicate to our children the inexpressible gift of God’s plans for and sovereignty over our lives.
Anyway, thanks for your musings… they help me on our different and yet similar journey.
~Jess
Comment by Jess @ Making Home (May 22, 2008 @ 8:23 am )
I love small towns…I grew up in one and would love to move back to one someday…what are you going to be farming?
The Amish are wonderful people!!! Good Luck with the new home!!!
Comment by Tracey (May 22, 2008 @ 9:11 am )
Yippee!!! August sounds so much better than the ‘years’ you speculated about in an earlier post!
I can rest easy now. Thank you.
Comment by Lady Why (May 22, 2008 @ 9:18 am )
Amy, we too left the city life and dreamed of a country life… More simple, more God reliant (instead of self sufficient). God blessed us with only one child, but the changes we saw in him brought through country life have been well worth it. We too bought an Amish home and converted it. We lived in it while this took place though, although I did have cabinets. =) We lived non-electric for a month or 2 until we got the 5 outlets we had put in.
Just be preparing yourself… The simple life is A LOT of work. You will have more hands to help, but I think too many people have the dream, but are discouraged by the hands on part. We love it. We were total city slickers. We now raise all of our own meats and have a huge garden. I would not want to live any other way. Just keep focused on the blessings. =)
Comment by Marci (May 22, 2008 @ 10:11 am )
Well, the Petersons would LOVE for you to have an August move date. Too bad McGregor will miss the baseball season…
Carri
Comment by petersonclan (May 22, 2008 @ 11:03 am )
Orlando…let me count the ways that I loathe you! The traffic, the crime, the sprawl, the way that it takes 45 minutes to get anywhere–I will never miss it. From a National Geographic article, “The Orlando region has become Exhibit A for the ascendant power of our cities’ exurbs: blobby coalescences of look-alike, overnight, amoeba-like concentrations of population far from city centers.”
Just saying.
Without fail, everyone who has gone from the city to the country has said, “The only thing I regret is that I didn’t do it sooner.” Of course, there is always that nagging thing in your head: am I doing the right thing? This is pretty big to just move… But I want to live with no regrets, and I’ll always wonder “what if” if we didn’t try it.
This, of course, has to be balanced with family, work, and the sometimes nebulous thing we call “God’s will.”
Regarding the Floridian exodus. Here are the numbers. We have a 2300 square foot house on a little lot in the suburbs. We’ll have more than 4,000 square feet in our new house, a shop, another concrete floor building, a barn, and 54 acres. Our KY property taxes and insurance are 70% less than here in Florida. Oh, and probably more, because State Farm just cancelled us here in FL this week after being with them for 25 years for all auto and house insurance and never making one claim. So that’s going to skyrocket. All our friends cajole us about moving, but I always fire back, “So you want to pay my tax bill?”
And then they remember and understand.
I don’t mean to be a dope, but you mean pastoral in the countryside sense, not in the clergy sense? You probably don’t know, but Greg was a pastor before a rocket scientist, and I can attest that that is a whole nuther rat race in itself.
Thank you for saying that. I wish there was some way to do some more of the things that we want to do right where we are. Can’t grow stuff (without huge costs) because of the salt and sand, combined with the zone 9 heat. Can’t have animals because of the zoning. Can’t build anything on our lot because of the tax nazis, etc.
Because of what you said, I realize that when you bring some rat race with you to the country, it is still the rat race. The scenery is just better.
We plan to just start with providing ourselves with food–thus, lowering the need for cash for the food bill. We plan to start an orchard and berry rows first thing because of the time it takes to mature. I’ve downloaded all the recommended varieties from the local extension service (they tell you what varieties grow in the area, which ones require minimal/no pesticide spraying, etc.).
Greg is on a yahoo group or something about sheep farming, but who knows if that’ll go anywhere.
Yes, another angle/example: when we were “in ministry,” it wasn’t about having enough money, as we always seemed to have enough and we weren’t worried because we were doing what we were supposed to be doing.
Comment by Amy Scott (May 22, 2008 @ 11:22 am )
What?! I heard they had their first season of Fall Ball last year, so are you saying that it doesn’t start in August? I tried calling, but the LL number is incorrect.
Comment by Amy Scott (May 22, 2008 @ 11:23 am )
decision made according to faith, not fear.
ah.
Comment by tia (May 22, 2008 @ 11:36 am )
I find it interesting that you post this today. For we are in the midst of trying to decipher where God wants us, too. We know where He doesn’t want us (which is here), and that is part of the battle, I suppose.
There is a bakery (that comes with a 3 bedroom house and 12 acres!)that is about 2 1/2 hours south of us and the owner wants to sell it specifically to us. There is so much that will go into the decision! (and that doesn’t include the money that we don’t have!!) I think we will “try out” the church this Sunday (we know many of the people who go there and that includes some very dear, good friends of ours), for the church is the most important decision at this point. We both hope and pray that this is where the Lord will lead us, but we know that it is His will, not ours.
I’m very happy for you!
Jennifer
Comment by Jennifer D (May 22, 2008 @ 4:26 pm )
I’m so happy for your family, Amy. As a former farm girl who now lives in NYC, I wouldn’t trade my bucolic–though not always easy–childhood for anything. My husband and I have not yet been blessed with children, but when and if we are, I’m not sure how it will work here: we have a tiny apartment, live in a somewhat unsafe neighborhood, the schools around us are awful, and we both work incredibly long hours. My children will have a childhood that is unfathomably different from my own.
But I love my job as an editor, and wish there were more Christians working in book publishing and the media in general. I’ve learned more about God’s love and grace in our urban church–nestled in the projects–than I did in the country. My home state is incredibly white, but now I live in a neighborhood where I’m a minority, and it has taught me so much. I feel as though I made a move from a safe world–one where most of the people my family knew were Christian, white, pretty stable, mostly sensible–to an incredibly unsafe one. But it has taught me so much about how judgmental and sanctimonious I used to be. How not Christ-like I was. I remember watching my mom clip coupons–she is one of those whizes who somehow gets a $100 grocery bill down to $50 almost every time–and listening to her wonder why people in this country go hungry. I couldn’t figure it out, either. But that was before I lived in a place where the only nearby food is overpriced, found in unappetizing corner bodegas. Nobody offers double coupons. Very little is offered in the way of fruits and vegetables. And these places just don’t have sales.
I’m not a parent, and we’ll see how my husband and I feel about raising kids here when the time comes. But I think we will probably figure it out. I hope we will. Leaving the rat race is a revolutionary act. But I think living as a Christian in an urban area can be one, too. I’d like to challenge Christians–particularly young college grads–to move to a big city and see how you can help out, see how you can contribute to this country’s culture (which I’ve found Christians love to knock, but never seem to do anything about, besides opting out altogether or only listening to Christian music, reading Christian books, etc.). It can be a life-changing experience, and–since you’ll probably give up driving, relying instead on public transportation, and live in such a tiny space there’s really no room to participate in the American “dream” of accumulating stuff–an environmentally friendly one, too.
I really do admire all that you are doing, Amy, and, again, I had a wonderful country childhood. But after reading so many positive comments about moving from the city to the country, well, I couldn’t resist adding one about taking the reverse route.
Comment by Editor in NYC (May 22, 2008 @ 4:43 pm )
Amy,
Wonderful post and great thoughts! I envy your move out to the country. (oh wait… thy shall not covet - oops!) This is our family’s desire as well. (secretly hoping it is God’s desire too!).
I so understand about protecting your children. Are there times we are to take risk for the sake of the Gospel. Absolutely. But, I am convinced, that more times than not, it usually isn’t at the risk of our children. (Not to say that God would never call us to that, but probably the exception rather than the rule). There was a reason Jesus didn’t start his ministry until he was 30. His earthly parents and his Heavenly Father were still “training him up in the way he should go”.
As a mom, I have to do the same! My children will be ready to enter the battle field… one day… but not at 4, 6 or even 12. And my prayer is that when they do, we will have armed them with the ability to STAND strong in their faith and fight the good fight for the sake of the gospel.
Blessings on your road to getting “moved in” to your new home and home town and as you raise your children for the glory of the Father. You seem like an awesome Mom!
Comment by Chelsey (May 22, 2008 @ 6:45 pm )
Editor in NYC,
I went bonkers when we lived in an apartment with our four children. (seven months on a business trip to CA) But you know, I’m not known for my calmness. It was incredibly difficult and I would’ve never had another child if I had to coop them up like that. It was crazy. I understand now why some parents let their kids just veg on video games. We got a TV for the kids and used it a lot. There was just nothing for them to do in 800 square feet and no yard.
One of my criticisms of modern life is that it is not family friendly. There has to be more families needing, say, cry rooms in the churches, but then, when people see how hard it is to raise one or two, they stop because yes, society doesn’t bend. So things never change, like letting children in church or putting a rocking chair in the back for a nursing mother, because it’s akin to installing a wheelchair ramp for handicapped folks that will never come. There are just so many practical issues–like how does a family like mine grab a cab? We can’t fit in one and my children are too young to split up.
I lean toward engaging the culture. I did my student teaching at an “F” school–all free lunches, 0% parent participation, 99% minorities with many not knowing English, and very dangerous. But I would never send my children into that war zone.
I would like to say that I admire your liberality with the —-. I use them a lot, and it is beautiful, just beautiful to see an editor do the same.
JenniferD, keep us posted? And Chelsey too, should you get your heart’s desire!
Comment by Amy Scott (May 22, 2008 @ 7:49 pm )
Sometimes I wonder how many good things we miss out on from God because we’re so worried about “being in His will” or “doing the right thing”. So many Christians seem to have a mindset that enjoying your life or following your dreams doesn’t bring God glory. Didn’t self-flagellation go out of style centuries ago?
Solomon encouraged us in Ecclesiastes that it is a good thing to eat and drink and enjoy the fruits of your labors.
Enjoy your farm! God loves you!
Comment by Lisa S (May 22, 2008 @ 10:09 pm )
I’ve been reading your blog for a while now and always enjoy your take on things. I appreciate the thought you put into it. Your last two posts have been especially interesting. My kids are grown but having been the recipient of *ahem* comments over the years, I applauded your encouragements for moms to stick together. There were periods when I felt pretty alone because of some choices we had made — homeschooling back when Bob Jones and ABeka wouldn’t even sell curriculum to homeschoolers; keeping our kids in church with us rather than sending them to “junior church”; taking a 75% pay cut to work with troubled kids… I have to admit there were times when I grew weary and thought (albeit briefly) that it might be nice to be “normal” for a change.
But then again, define “normal”.
And then to read today’s post and the struggle we face as parents about what kind of life is best for our family. The thing is, it’s going to be different for each of us. It makes me nuts to hear someone say dogmatically that their way is the best way.
[But to my shame I remember when I was pretty dogmatic about a lot of things. When I was younger and didn't know much. Actually I guess I knew a lot more then because the older I get the more I realize the less I know.]
Anyway, we did much like what you’re getting ready to do. We left south Florida and moved to the rural Midwest when our son was 7 and daughter was 2. It wasn’t even so much a dislike of life in the city as it was the hours hubby had to work AND commute that meant he had to be up and gone before the kids woke up and they were often in bed asleep by the time he got home at night. I felt like a single parent!
When we moved we took a huge financial hit (here’s where the 75% pay cut came in) but you know, we actually ended up with more SPENDABLE income. How crazy is that?
Our kids are grown now but they loved the time we had together as a family when they were growing up. We have so many great memories of working together, playing together, traveling together. Our choices may not have worked for anyone else, but they were perfect for us.
And bottom line, God has a plan for each of us and all of those plans…well, they’re different. And that’s a good thing.
Now we’re getting ready to leave rural America and head to a city in another country where we’ll be helping plant churches. Hubby has been an associate pastor for 12 years and we spent one year filling in for missionaries on furlough in Africa. But this will be a whole ‘nother ballgame. Kinda thought I’d be “settled” by this time in my life. Ha! No, God thinks it would be much more fun to send me somewhere where I have to learn a new language — I’ll be 50 on my next birthday. Ain’t that a hoot?!
Comment by Kim (May 22, 2008 @ 10:58 pm )
NYC Editor, I’m guessing that you’re the one who commented many months ago on the post “Made for Another World.”
Amy,
I get what you’re saying about your kids’ safety and the like. My daughter, the one who’s a student at Master’s College, is in South Africa for six weeks with nine other students. They are working with children with HIV and AIDS. Honestly, this is not something that I would have chosen for her. In fact, my prayers go something like this: “Lord, please be with Charissa and the rest of the team. Please help the team stay healthy. Give them strength as they teach the children, etc. And, oh, yeah, please help the Gospel go out with boldness, unfettered and with power.” It is difficult to trust the Lord no matter what you tell yourself. BUT, this is where God wants her and regardless of the riots in Johannesburg (where they are, but not close to the riots), I know that He will have to protect her. Did I mention that this wouldn’t be my first choice for her?
WHEREVER we are is where God has us. He’s in control and sovereign over our plans. Even steps we take in which we’re confident God is leading can seemingly go awry, but with God, there is no waste of time. As a wise pastor said, “The Christian life isn’t a leap of faith, it’s a walk putting one foot in front of the other.”
Finally, I hope that everyone is praying for Steven Curtis Chapman’s family tonight.
Cathy
Comment by Cathy (May 23, 2008 @ 12:17 am )
I teach in a state high school. I wouldn’t send my kids there unless - and it would have to be with a loudhailer - we heard clearly that it is the Lord’s will. We don’t have children yet, but we have talked long and hard about their future, and we would like to home school. I’ve taught for fourteen years, and it wouldn’t solely be for ‘religious’ reasons that we would choose this path. It just seems best to me. The state high school I teach in? Just seems like sending kids into a battle field, and I don’t believe the scars are worth it, even with the character-building experiences they would have.
I do believe that if you are in God’s will, you have to let go of fears, but I believe we need to protect our children as much as we can with the wisdom He has given us.
On another note, you had a whole four days sans children? Did you sleep the whole time?!
Comment by Valerie (May 23, 2008 @ 3:35 am )
Amy,
I can’t imagine what it was like for you and your family to live in an 800 square foot apartment. My husband and I barely squeeze into our 600 square foot pad. And I don’t know how your brood would be able to cab it around town. Again, the choice your family is making seems right for you, and God-honoring. I guess I just find that a lot of Christian blogs I read are pro-country, anti-city, and I wanted to share with your readers that city life can be life-changingly wonderful, too. I don’t want all Christians to abandon this country’s centers of commerce, media, and politics. There are too few of us here as is.
(And I’ll restate here that I don’t have kids; when we do, my feelings might well change.)
I am a fan of the em dash, but I should have re-read my post before posting it. I would have cut a few. I noticed a few repetitions of phrase that could have been axed, too. Ah, well. That’s why I’m an editor, and not a writer, I suppose. I just need to remember to edit myself.
Cathy, you guessed correctly. I continue to read and mostly lurk, but I’m a fan of Amy’s thought-provoking blog.
Comment by Editor in NYC (May 23, 2008 @ 9:29 am )
Great thoughts Amy. I think children are WAY *under* protected these days, and it seems like God is calling more parents to realize that and shelter their children more. Tragic things can happen so quickly, to any of us, and there’s a reason God gave mothers and fathers such an innate desire to protect and shelter their own, from birth. “Be in the world but not of the world”, it’s so hard for children to not be influenced by things that they are bombarded by constantly. I don’t think missions work is for children, personally, and when we have children we need to be thinking of how to best protect them. I think anyway.
We can be preparing them to go off into the world someday, and training and equipping them the best we can, but I’m definitely of the “shelter while they’re young” camp.
Comment by Kristi (May 23, 2008 @ 1:47 pm )
We just moved from a McNeighborhood to a country home a couple of weeks ago, and other than realizing while making pancakes this morning that I didn’t have milk, and that I also didn’t have neighbors to lend me milk, it has been perfect. We wake up happy to look out on a barn and trees and pastures every morning. And better than that, the kids are exhausted at bedtime from all the fresh air, dirt, and unending nooks and crannies to explore. I’d do it all over again just to have bedtime be so easy!
Congratulations on your coming move
Comment by Sarah's in the Midst of It (May 23, 2008 @ 10:39 pm )
Hey, I want to reply to some of the things ya’ll said, but I’ve been offline and we are scrambling today to get our house in order for showing. (Sell, please, sell!) Yesterday, I went bonkers on a huge Indian food spread. It took the better part of the day, but it was soooooo worth it. I keep experimenting with Indian food while we’re here, so I can stock up on supplies before we move. I found a winner last night, man-oh-man. I heart a good Indian dish. We’ve even converted the kids.
Be back later.
Comment by Amy Scott (May 24, 2008 @ 10:24 am )
So happy for you! I hope you will continue to share more about what you have learned in your farm remodel. We live on the very edge of our town of 50,000 in northeast Arkansas. We are in a rural area that was annexed a few years ago, so we get (very affordable) city utilities, sewer, and cable internet. I would love to live on a farm, but I’m not sure about septic systems and well water.
By the way, I am pregnant again!
Comment by Valerie (May 24, 2008 @ 2:12 pm )
I wanted to add something else. I have been reading a fascinating book about the Great Depression called “We Had Everything But Money”. There are so many essays about people who had farms like yours and were able to sustain themselves very well back then. They had huge gardens and some livestock and faired far better than the people in the city. Not saying that we are headed toward a depression of that magnitude, just that in these uncertain economic times it is very practical to be able to be as self-sustaining as possible. I think what you are doing makes perfect sense.
Comment by Valerie (May 24, 2008 @ 2:28 pm )
(This is a different Valerie.) Hey Amy, I just wrote a bit about Indian food last night! I LOVE Indian food! We went to our Bangladeshi friends’ for dinner last night - nothing like an authentic curry! I was writing in my blog how I LOVE to actually grind the spices fresh, and use them in different quantities in different curries. If you ever want to talk curry, I’m there! LOL!
One of the best curry-cooks in my opinion is Madhu Jeffrey. She is really good, and not too complicated. Jamie Oliver also gives some really basic spice combinations for different types of curry if you are interested. If you do stock up on spices, make sure they are not pre-ground - they lose their flavour really fast!
LOVE ME SOME CURRY!!!!
Comment by Valerie (May 24, 2008 @ 10:03 pm )
Mmm. Indian Food.
Here’s a toast with a mango lassi that your house sells!!
Love your “farm posts” Amy.
Comment by Andrea@Flourishing Mother (May 25, 2008 @ 12:43 pm )
[...] husband is finally home. Praise God! It looks like Amy and her family may finally get to make their long awaited move in August. And I had not heard about Kristy’s terrible loss until she wrote to me last [...]
Pingback by A Quiet Simple Life » Blog Archive » is there any news? (May 25, 2008 @ 1:26 pm )
Funny about that Piper quote. That came from his message, “Doing Missions When Dying is Gain,” and had a similar lasting impact on me. I recall he was saying that candidates for positions at their church would ask, “Will my children be safe?” And his vehement response is, “Can you ask that question TENTH and not first?… No one ever said your children would be safe in the cause of the gospel!”
To this day that quote sticks in my head, much as it does yours.
And Piper used the example of a family on the mission field who had tragically lost their 18mo child in an accident not unlike the recent one that beset Steven Curtis Chapman’s family.
Given that Piper said “tenth” and not “never,” I think it’s fair to say that his point is that too often we have very temporary viewpoints, and our willingness to sacrifice for the gospel is too often couched in comfortable suburbanite contexts (”I will sacrifice my daily Starbucks for the gospel.”) But the call of Christ is radical, and calls to consider even more radical sacrifices, if necessary. In no way do I think he’s saying we should primarily think about how to sacrifice our children — but his point is that far too often we don’t even allow the possibility, *in the cause of the gospel*.
Comment by Evers (May 25, 2008 @ 11:54 pm )
Amy, thanks for this post! It really offers much food for thought. It sounds like you and your family are in for an adventure!
Editor in New York, if you see this comment, I’d love to hear from you!
I’m a young mom, just about to have my second child (and my husband and I hope to have a bunch:), living in Brooklyn, NY and making it here!
The biggest things I can say about city living? Coming from mostly suburban living all my life in many different locations, the life here REALLY tests who I am as a Christian and specifically as a Christian mother/urban hospitality maker. Being surrounded by so many people each day from so many different ethnic backgrounds, etc and some very, very rude (we all know the New York stereo types of rudeness;) sure tests the old character! I am always being challenged to practice more self control and love towards others, even if not reciprocated. Any other place of living after this one will seem easier for sure but for myself, I wonder if it will ultimately be as much of a Christian growth experience as well?
It is more dangerous here in ways but Amy, you’re right. When you know God wants you in a place, there is nothing like that. We go to a small Sovereign Grace Ministries church that we can walk to each Sunday morning in about 20 minutes and it is just awesome to see God working in a city like New York. And when people find a Christian niche here, they definitely do not take it for granted!
At the end of the day, no matter where we live, I suppose it is just so incredible that as Christians we can see God works everywhere and if we wants us to live in a place, He will make that particular season a great one.
Comment by Susanna (May 26, 2008 @ 1:35 am )
I was looking at Hot springs Arkansas as aplace to move. I live in Miami and i just want something a little quiter with some mild seasons.
Hi I am a cartoonist and am creating a kids content website. I want you to check it out and see if you enjoy it. It is still in the early stages of construction, but I need some input. It is based on my daughter. Here it is, http://www.brendasfriends.com. I have a link to my blog there and too some coloring pages. Please let me know what you think. I will be happy to add you to my blogroll if you will do the same. I hope we can be friends.
Comment by Thomas (May 26, 2008 @ 2:18 am )
Amy: Sell, sell, show well and sell. God has been in the real estate business from way back. But you know this already.
Valerie: thanks for the book recommendation. My grandmother was a young adult when the Depression set in. She worked at a hosiery factory in town and sent money “back to the country” (15 miles away) to help support younger siblings. She often made the comment that the Depression didn’t hurt them much b/c they were poor already. Living in the country and farming allowed them plenty of food and they had their house, so shelter was not an issue. We are learning to grow our own food just in case it becomes necessary for us to keep our own family fed.
We lost so much wisdom when her generation passed, especially related to farming/gardening and animal husbandry. What I would not give for a week with her now while the garden was coming in, so she could help me “put it up”.
Comment by MrsBurns (May 26, 2008 @ 10:53 am )
There is a quote by Piper (yes again, but this time I won’t mess it up), “God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him.” I don’t think our desires are at odds with His desires for our lives when we are delighting ourselves in God.
I look forward to that–making more of our own entertainment, pocketing $5,000 more a year just in taxes, and growing a lot of our own food.
Cathy, God bless your sweet daughter!
For what it’s worth, I feel very differently about my children’s protection when they are young now and what it will look like in the future. I mean, I’m sure I will freak out (calmly and in private) to send them off into the world, but they are Lord’s like you said…
I wish! No, but I did try to sleep in, but that darn guinea hen squawked and hollered every morning at 5:30 a.m. First thing on the to-do list: shoot the guinea. I don’t care if they eat ticks. I can’t stand the screaching.
Congratulations, Valerie! That’s great news.
We’re on a septic now in our suburban neighborhood. You just have to remember–no bleach for cleaning. As far as a well, we have one here and there for irrigation. Our farm is out in the country, but we’re 10 minutes to Super Wal-Mart and on city water….
I am going to see about getting a hold of that book. I don’t know about a depression either (all the doomsday economic/housing bubble blogs I read think so, though), but I really think we’re heading for a deep recession. If nothing else, it’s better to know where your food is coming from and what’s being sprayed on it, in addition to saving $$$.
Evers, Thanks for that link; I appreciate it. I added it to the sidebar, and I will also link the Indian dish I found.
Thomas, Why didn’t you warn us to turn down our speakers!?!
Mrs. Burns, The house didn’t sell, but at least they showed up. We had two no-shows last week, and it’s a hassle to clean and remove all the children, as you can imagine!
Thanks to everyone who took time to comment. I do read all of them. I just don’t have as much time as I’d like to dialogue and type. It is usually busy, what with six kids, but adding the house sale and move on top of it, ay-yi-yi!
Comment by Amy Scott (May 26, 2008 @ 4:31 pm )
I’m really, really happy for you, Amy. And there is a big difference between fear-based withdrawal and what y’all are doing. . .
Comment by TulipGirl (May 26, 2008 @ 6:58 pm )
Amy,
You can move to the country, but you can’t shelter your kids ~ tell that to all the naysayers! Taking your kids out of danger as much as possible is a good thing, in fact, don’t we all do that with ourselves?
The country seems to have plenty of eccentrics to make for variety for my children. We hold among our acquaintances a felon whose family owned the most beautiful dairy farm in Ohio, another felon who is 79 years old who has been sustainably farming for 50 years, is a friend of Joel Salatin’s, and is featured in the book Women of the Harvest(by the way, she is a felon because her cows got out on her neighbor’s property, they sued, and she lost - it’s considered a felony), a political writer who used to write for national publications and who wears only natural fibers, eats only organic foods he knows the origin of and has a housed stacked so full of books you can’t walk, friends who are embroiled in a lawsuit with the Ohio Dept. of Agrig. on raw milk issues, I could go on but you get the point.
Remember, I said acquaintaces, not friends necessarily.
You can’t artificially create these experiences in the city, they just happen in the country. We became involved in our local farmer’s market and from there things just exploded with experiences for our children. My daughters have been hired to bake bread for grazier meetings, been on committees to plan events for the market, helped run those events, and met many, many interesting folks. They can talk to just about anyone on almost any topic and feel comfortable around all sorts of people. They’re 7 and 13.
We’ve been doing the homesteading thing for 5 years now. We’d do more but my husband has those pesky medical school loans to pay off and can’t farm full time.
Putting in fruits trees and bushes is a great first step. Don’t forget the rhubarb (and plant plenty)and asparagus right off as well.
Best wishes,
Warmly,
Tonya
Comment by Tonya (May 26, 2008 @ 7:48 pm )
Amy,
I also highly recommend We Had Everything But Money. There is a sequel called When the Banks Closed, We Opened Our Hearts. I found both of them used online and they are wonderful. I have read them many times.
They are collections of stories and photos by the publishers of Reminisce Magazine. So many of the stories really put things in perspective. I think you and your family would really enjoy them.
Sallie
Comment by Sallie @ a quiet simple life (May 26, 2008 @ 7:57 pm )
Count me in as a fellow Floridian looking to get out! Of course I live in the still southern state of north Florida. (Or south Georgia, whatever!) We have two year plan that we are in the first year of. I can’t wait.
Comment by julie (May 27, 2008 @ 12:16 pm )
[...] does it take to obey? I only have to talk to one at a time. And don’t I care? Amy of Humble Musing Fame writes about different callings, and her life. She wants to raise her kids in a safer, less [...]
Pingback by New Attitude and Evangelism « Lisa of Longbourn (May 29, 2008 @ 10:41 pm )
I just found your blog while searching for TOG information. How cool that you are also looking to get out of Orlando! We moved here from MN 5 1/2 years ago. We were back in MN last week for the first time since we came to Orlando. I have to say we were blown away at how much better “home” looked! The saying is that you can never go home but it sure looked tempting! Of course the housing market is so bad that it will be hard to sell anyway.
Best wishes to you in your journey. May God bless your family as you search for ways to honor Him.
Comment by Sue Moyer (June 13, 2008 @ 9:06 pm )